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Stewart

Peugeotech's 505 V8 build (Rover 4.6L)

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3 hours ago, Bean said:

Cutting and rotating the pinion on the rack is pure genius - well done!

Looking forward to more progress Stewart!

Rabin

Hi Bean. I am a lucky chap. The idea was one my father had years ago while talking about power steer in his 404 ute. My brother remembered the idea and yep, what a stroke of genius! So simple. Plenty of room to get this thing as good as it can be. 

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Hi chaps,

Today I found some "me" time and started reworking the rack pinion position. At the same time I'm setting up engine mounts, trying to utilise 2x Pug 407 V6 HDi engine mounts. ( I had new old stock and it looks so good there and dimensions are looking good too!)

I added  a machined extender of  what started as 15mm ( but turned into 25mm) to the RHD drivers side rack housing to start positioning. It twists as well so I can get a fine position on the rotary valve. I hope you like this progress as much as I do. 

I think I'm good to go hard from here.

I Phone photos 006.JPG

I Phone photos 007.JPG

I Phone photos 008.JPG

I Phone photos 011.JPG

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Looks great Stewart!  

One would assume if you had access to multiple racks you could combine them so that you'd have a single weld for those of us with no handy access to a lathe.  :)

What's the plan for the rack mounting?  Will you move the mounts on the rack as well - or change the mounting points on the cross member?  Will the rack shaft inside need to be extended as well?

Rabin

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I have a few racks and didn't even think if using 2 to make one! Good idea Bean! I mounted the long part of the rack housing in a 4 jaw chuck to bore a rebate into it and the pinion so that the adapter I made slides into each piece, then clamped it with threaded rod to pull it up tight. I really wanted to keep it all dead true. I'll get the engine sitting in the cross member so I can adjust the pinion position. I'm hoping I can machine down  the length of the spacer to a few mm more than factory and just lightly twist the pinion down a few degrees for clearance. I definitely don't want to change the feel of the 505 steering so, I'm being very careful about geometry.

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I did another mock up today and reckon I can minimise my spacer to 12mm. Then twist the pinion only a few degrees to clear the starter. I will have to remove the  pressed on boss on the rack for the other end of the ram and rotate it to suit the ram alignment. Should be very cool. I'll order the second 407 top engine mount and make engine mount brackets this week , I hope.

I think 12mm less lock on right turns is liveable with a 505, Full Steam Ahead now!!

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I can't find it anymore on the web but I remember two brits had shortened 205 racks to fit some kind of old roadster, they did this on the boss:

PS4.JPG.087c646b78ebc4f583f809a77f627ed7.JPG

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We could do that! I do plan to heat the end and press it off but I could do that too. It would probably be easier in the long run and will get the ram nice and straight. Good idea. I'm looking at engine control options again. Was it VEMS the favoured option for you chaps?

 

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VEMS or MegaSquirt have been the favorites, but I also picked up an older SDS Efi standalone system to try.  Much simpler system without a lot of the advanced features,  but apparently very easy to tune and it does a good job for simple systems.  It will be going on a 505 Turbo SW8 - so no big power goals.

Rabin

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I checked the VEMS this morning . It looks to be exactly what I need. I was wanting to build a megasquirt 3 but with the exchange rate it's not worth the bother. Over $500 aud for a box of electronic parts to assemble and I think I need to have external coil drivers with that which I don't want. I may get another custom one made yet but I think for the money the VEMS looks just right so far. It's hot here todayin sunny Queensland,  8 am and 29 C. Arrrggghhh!

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Just been weighing up engine control and stumbled into Speeduino. It's supported  here in Australia and looks like a very good option for me. I have a tame Electrical Engineer also , who is also keen to get Speeduino into his machines. 

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Cool - I was wondering how long it would take for someone to build an Arduino based ECU...  Googled them and found their website - but their latest assembled version says no longer in stock.

Getting someone that knows it and supports it locally will be the big benefit - My only concern is it looks very new with sporadic support / posts on their website.  Price is definitely right though - will definitely follow progress though as it looks to have great potential.

Rabin

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I find that getting proper understanding of the terminology used in a manufacturer's software the hardest part in all of it Bean. I have a lot of trouble understanding the megasquirt system descriptions. I'm setting up an MSII in a mini moke. Turbo, injected  and  wasted spark. Might go and wire it up today.

 

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In these images the rack is now clear of the starter. Of course the mounts will compress so today I'll set up a rig to simulate crushed/broken mounts to get clearance if the mounts fail.

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Made engine brackets for engine mounts this week. 3mm steel. It took hours but they are almost complete. Just working on torque reaction control now.

I don't seem able to upload images atm.

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Are you getting any sort of error?   If the pictures are too big you can run into issues as well.

As for the torque reaction - are you thinking of a torque arm up top somewhere? 

Rabin

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4 hours ago, Bean said:

Are you getting any sort of error?   If the pictures are too big you can run into issues as well.

As for the torque reaction - are you thinking of a torque arm up top somewhere? 

Rabin

That's probably it, thanks. Working too hard on fun things and I forget the obvious. I get " there was a problem uploading your file'

I've almost nutted out something on the mounts with one of two ways. An arm like a sway link pin from a 505 wagon rear bar. At an angle so that when the engine lifts or twists it works against the rubber bushes in the link twisting them. Or I could use coil springs each side of a plate. See what a good night's sleep brings tonight I suppose. 

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I've just calculated that a valve spring in the right place could be used as a torque reaction fitting on the engine mount. I think I'll go this way as I can design in adjustment for the mount sag and also tighten them for hard working.

 

As for engine control , I'm really impressed with the Russian SECU-3 system. So easy for me to understand their focus and layout although I'm a little tricked by the file types in the firmware. php it is. (Me old silver back gorilla mechanic and no understand the file electron magic smokes.)

The system has some great tools like a separate engine fan speed control box, as in modern cars a pwm fan and  they have a map sensitive ign box for my carb cars.

 

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Guys, I' recall seeing a parts list of heavy duty options available for the 504/505 years ago. Can anyone here suggest where I might access that data please?

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Hi Stewart, 

No help at all really as I've never heard of any heavy duty specs.  I'd suggest contacting Brian Holm though - if anyone would know in North American markets it would be him or Mike Aube.

Rabin

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No 505 or 504 on Service box, only the old scans from Peugeot classic:

http://public.servicebox.peugeot.com/classic/

A few parts may be avaible anyway, you have to ask for the part number even if they don't have the drawing in the system.

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I may have seen the heavy duty options on a microfische or a parts book. All good now as I've made up reasonable looking engine mounts and movement restrictor assemblies. I recall seeing a piece welded to the rear x member with a rubber mount like a shocker rubber assembly bolted to the torque tube. Stopped the drive line for aft movement I think. I guess it would reduce twist too. I trialled the TIG I have last week. Pretty fun thing. Electric style gas welding. I'll have to get practicing so I can weld the rack housing. I have a contact who heats the alloy piece with a propane torch prior to welding. Makes sense I guess.

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Compared to steel aluminium act as a heat sink so yes it can make things easier to heat the parts ; that will also reduce internal stress during cooling.

Furthermore even after a good wash there may be some oil and moisture trapped inside that the torch will drive out before welding.

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