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Hi all - noob here.  Just purchased an '86 505s.  So I have a couple of questions. 

First, the trunk lock works but only if you "know the trick", and I can't seem to learn it.  The key turns, but nothing happens - apparently it's a simple matter of pushing the button in at just the right moment as you turn the key.  So my question is whether this push-button style lock was originally supposed to pop the trunk without a key if it's unlocked?  Because that is the behavior I want - I have no need to lock the trunk.  I'd prefer to just unlock it and use the push-button to open the trunk.   So if that's the original behavior, I will just have to get a new lock, and there is one up on eBay.  Otherwise, I'll have to rig something up.

Second, is there a way into the trunk without a key?  I mean, I have the key but it does me no good since I can't learn the "trick".

Finally, does anyone know of a good Peugeot repair shop in Maryland?  I live just south of Baltimore.

Thanks!

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It just figures that after two days of trying, right after I posted this I managed to stumble into the trick and got it open.  Doubt I could duplicate it though.  But I've answered my first question - definitely not designed to be a simple push-button open.  Darn - that would have been nice.  So there is a cam at the end of the key button, and it appears you push the button in, turn the key, the cam strikes a sprung plate that pops the lock.  Everything appears in good shape, so not sure why it's not working.  However.....

I removed the locking mechanism, and there is a solenoid with an actuator for an automatic trunk opener.  So my new question is whether there is a button somewhere in the cabin that is supposed to pop the trunk?  Can't find one, but that would be sweet.

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welcome mystreba! please post pics of your car when you get a chance.

IIRC, the 505 trunk lock works the same as on the 405...to open the trunk, you push in the button. you use the key to lock & unlock the trunk (putting the key into the keyhole on the button) -- if it's unlocked, pushing the button will open it. if it is locked, pushing the button does nothing.

the solenoid/actuator is there in the event that you have the optional remote (which was available in europe, not sure if it was available in the US/Canada). this remote would lock and unlock the doors; when you locked the doors, it would lock the trunk but when you unlocked the doors it would not unlock the trunk. there is no trunk release button inside the car. so if the trunk is locked, the only way it will open is if someone gets out of the car, rain or shine, and unlocks it with a key and presses the button. "wow," you are thinking, "this is a huge pain in the ass, why would anyone design a car this way." but actually, it is quite charming and french. protip: if you are taking a weekend getaway with your crush/significant other, make sure the trunk is unlocked before you pull into the porte cochere of that fancy hotel, or you'll be back there with the bellman getting your luggage out of the trunk since he will have no idea how to get into your locked trunk and you will definitely lose style points.

this is part of the fun of owning an older french car, things will be going fine for a while and you'll be thinking, "hey, it's really not that different from other cars i've owned" and then you will encounter something like the trunk or the horn or any one of a dozen other things which will make no sense at first (and maybe even later). but we are here for you, ask anything and we will do our best to answer. :) also, if you haven't already, you should join peugeot-l (yahoo group) and our Facebook group.

andre

 

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Thanks Andre.  I have to agree with your assessment of the charm of this French car.

So I managed to disassemble the trunk locking components.  I pulled the solenoid out, since it's fairly useless to me at this point.  Now I am left with a locking mechanism with a spring-loaded trip plate, and a push-button lock with a cam.  Should work as you say, since I now see that the cam is swiveled 180 degrees away from the trip plate when locked, so pushing the button does nothing.  When unlocked, the cam is aligned with the trip plate, so theoretically pushing the button will put the cam into contact with the trip plate, which springs it open like a mouse-trap.  Theoretically.

But I now see that the cam falls short of the trip plate by almost 1/2 inch.  And I realize that the cam was never intended to make contact directly with the trip plate, as that would be too obvious.  Instead, it makes contact with a plastic sleeve at the end of the solenoid actuator arm, which goes over the trip plate.  I'm guessing that sleeve was slightly worn, which is why it was so darn hard to make contact and get the trunk open.  It looks like this:

lock_zpsrmruzic9.png

So, with this design it appears to me that the solenoid could not lock the trunk, because the actuator sleeve doesn't make any contact with the cam on the lock (which needs to swivel 180 degrees in order to lock the trunk - not obvious in this side-view diagram).  It actually appears designed to "pop the trunk", as activating it would contact the trip plate.  At least...that's how it appears.

I am going to attempt to modify the cam so that it is extended the 1/2 required to contact the trip plate.  That will give me the push-button action I want.

Here is the car.  Actually, my son's car.  I'm just the mechanic.

Image%20uploaded%20from%20iOS%201_zpsrsk

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And now it just dawned on me how this works.

The solenoid pushes/pulls the actuator sleeve.  When activated in lock mode (closed), it pulls the sleeve back away from the trip plate, which the cam cannot reach.  When activated in unlock mode (open), it pushes the sleeve over the trip plate, where the cam can now make contact with it.  So it was as you said: it would lock the trunk - not by doing anything with the actual lock, but by making it impossible to open it whether the trunk was locked or not.  It would also unlock the trunk - again, not by doing anything with the actual lock, but by making it possible to open it.  In either case, the mechanism had nothing whatsoever to do with the actual lock.

It had four states then:

Actuator           Lock

Open                Locked        (can't get in because locked)
Open                Unlocked    (can get in)
Closed             Locked        (can't get in because blocked and locked)
Closed             Unlocked     (can't get in because blocked)

 

And I thought my BMWs were over-engineered!

So it appears that my solution is to inspect the actuator sleeve for wear, and if it's still good, reinstall it and make sure it remains fully in the open mode (sleeve extended over the trip plate).  I'll do this by leaving it unplugged.  If it's worn, I'll have to extend the cam so it can reach the trip plate.

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reading your post has "refined" my memory of how all of these things work - i think your analysis is spot on. the solenoid system is essentially a second lock that's pre-installed on all of the cars to save on labor cost...the remote system is plug and play and IIRC it was even a dealer-installed accessory. so you have two possibilities, a car without the remote system and a car with the remote system; given the constraints the product planners imposed, the engineers came up with a system that is complicated but allows for both possibilities.

there is a similar logic to the door locks on the car; my 1991 405 and my earlier 1986 505 both have power door locks but no remote. french manufacturers were way out front in offering remote locking/unlocking systems, from the early 80s on peugeots and renaults used an infrared-based system called the PLIP -- if you google that term, you'll find a lot of information out there on the internet as well as here on this forum. on the 80s and 90s peugeots, the transceiver unit generally goes in the overhead console, if you remove the panel of the plafonnier (dome light), you'll see a spot where the transceiver can be plugged in. the dealer kits were all bought up years ago but you can sometimes find good used ones (or even $$$ NOS ones) on the european ebays. it's also possible to wire up a modern RF-based remote locking kit at this install point, but you will still be left with the operational constraints of the system (i.e., no remote trunk-popping) unless you re-engineer things yourself.

car looks great, by the way.

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So I finally got the time to fix the problem.  The actuator sleeve was not worn so I just had to extend it and unplug the servo so it doesn't partially retract again.

...and just got the time to clean up this description.  My original side-view diagram above was slightly off, so here is a corrected top-view diagram.  In this top-view diagram the latch sits under the trip plate ...

trunk%20lock%201_zpsi5kcgjfh.jpg                            trunk%20lock%202_zpssneb2iyv.jpg

It's ingenious, really.  Forget the details of the diagrams for a minute.  Imagine it's just a button, a trip plate and a spring-loaded latch.  When the button is depressed, it catches the trip plate which pops the spring-loaded latch, like a mouse-trap. 

But we need a way to lock the trunk, so the trip plate is positioned slightly to the right side of the button, so the button misses it.  Then a cam arm is fastened to the end of the button.  Insert the key and turn the lock to the right, and the cam arm swings over to align with the trip plate - push the button and it hits the trip plate.  Turn the lock to the left, and the cam arm swings over to the left, away from the trip plate - when you press the button nothing happens because the cam arm isn't aligned with the trip plate.   But the ingeniousness doesn't stop there, because now we want a way to lock and unlock the trunk remotely. 

And here is where the diagrams above come into play.  Start by shortening the button so the cam arm can't reach the trip plate, even when the key is turned to the right.  Then install a small servo with an actuator sleeve; when engaged, the servo extends the sleeve over the trip plate.  Now the cam arm can reach the sleeve, which catches the trip plate.  Want to lock the trunk remotely?  The servo simply retracts the sleeve, so the cam arm can't reach the trip plate.  So again:

Actuator               Key Lock

retracted              Unlocked     (can't get in because cam arm can't reach the trip plate)
retracted              Locked        (can't get in because cam arm wouldn't hit the plate even if it could reach it)

extended              Unlocked    (push the button and the cam arm hits the extended actuator which contacts the trip plate and pops the trunk)
extended              Locked        (can't get in because cam arm won't hit the actuator)


Who thinks of this stuff?

So back to my original question - is this push-button style lock supposed to pop the trunk without a key if it's unlocked? The answer is YES!  But mine wasn't working because the actuator sleeve was partially retracted for some reason (I no longer have the remote key fob, so couldn't correct it).  With the sleeve partially retracted, you had to find just the right combination of key-turn and button-push.  The simple solution was to fully extend the actuator sleeve, and then unplug it so it wouldn't partially retract again!

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Wow - I love your analysis of the lock function!  Will definitely need to move / copy this to the tech section as a reference for others.

Have you checked the fuses and wiring to the solenoid?  Might be an easy fix to get it functional - 9/10 times non-function is due to poor electrical connections and or grounding issues.   #1 thing with these cars is to clean the grounding trees.  2nd would be to clean, "tighten", and protect all connections as they're all unsealed.

Rabin

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Hi all - time on my hands.   Just took a minute to update my description of the trunk lock.  Simplified it a bit and with the two diagrams it should be pretty clear now. 

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