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Edit: Gotti wheels finally made!!! -86 505 Turbo 180bhp version (big restauration)

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Hello people!.

I´m still struggling with this old girl. Not with the work as I dont do that myself now, but with organizing and sourcing parts that are pretty much impossible to get hold of.

Last update is that I ordered a Spec clutch 3+ clutch kit as this baby is going to be properly tuned when I get it back. But apparently, Spec Clutches had the same information about diameter and pressure plate dimensions for the NA and the Turbo engines. This of course didn´t fit my car (as the turbo has about 20mm larger diameter clutch). So I (that live in Norway), had to organize for my contact where my car is (in Lithuanina) to get his mechanics to ship the new AND the old clutch to Spec Clutches in USA. So they again can special make a one of clutch from rebuilding the original pressure plate (as their supplier of plates has discontinued the turbo plate), and make a new friction plate to go with it.

I cant say it´s been a easy task sourcing parts for this project! 😂

I´ll attach a couple of pictures of the clutch issue, and how the car is parked at the moment.

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48174251_565317753893277_1656636836744790016_n.jpg

47578827_1989232471131164_602436890603290624_n.jpg

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That sucks!

Sadly all my used 5sp clutches are still in the cars.  I was also thinking of a Spec 2+ as I wanted to keep the sprung clutch plate, but I do have a new Sachs clutch that will get used first.  I'd hate to sacrifice a new part to get rebuilt by Spec, so will need to ensure the used ones I have are saved so they can be rebuilt.

Do you have any idea what you're going to use for engine management?  

Rabin

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15 minutes ago, Bean said:

That sucks!

Sadly all my used 5sp clutches are still in the cars.  I was also thinking of a Spec 2+ as I wanted to keep the sprung clutch plate, but I do have a new Sachs clutch that will get used first.  I'd hate to sacrifice a new part to get rebuilt by Spec, so will need to ensure the used ones I have are saved so they can be rebuilt.

Do you have any idea what you're going to use for engine management?  

Rabin

 

I dont like using a original clutch in as good condition as mine, for rebuild. But it was all I had. Mine is a 3+ btw, and still sprung, as you can se from the pictures. 😊

For aftermarked ecu I will be using MS3X probably. As I basically have been owning at least one car with megasquirt since 2007/2008, continuously. At the moment, two of my Alfa´s has it set up.  So I´m somewhat experienced with their systems. 😊

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Sorry - I just meant also using Spec as the supplier.  I figured 2+ would be a good compromise between  being able to handle the power and not abusing the drivetrain.  I'd rather have the clutch be the fuse in the driveline than risk damaging the stock BA10/5 or the stock diff, but I'm only shooting for 300 RWHP, so 2+ should still be plenty of clutch for me and still have nice drive ability.  Would definitely consider stage 3+ if you have favorable experience with it however.

MS3 should add a lot of tuning capability - should be fun to see what kind of power your car can make.  Definitely one of the nicest 505 projects I've ever seen come together.  :)

Rabin

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Hey,

 

Such a nice project and very good looking paintjob indeed!

It is good to see that I'm not the only one battling with the excessive rust. I find it really funny that my newest project had the same amount of rustness in the exact same locations than your car had.

About the Megasquirt you have been using, are they pre-assembled or have you put them together by yourself (by using construction kit)?

-Wales

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25 minutes ago, Wales said:

Hey,

 

Such a nice project and very good looking paintjob indeed!

It is good to see that I'm not the only one battling with the excessive rust. I find it really funny that my newest project had the same amount of rustness in the exact same locations than your car had.

About the Megasquirt you have been using, are they pre-assembled or have you put them together by yourself (by using construction kit)?

-Wales

Hello Wales. 

 

I've always used the pre assembled setups from Diyautotune. I buy the ecu assembled, and then a harness in the preferred length I need. And then it's about 10 hours of work with soldering and positioning of the harness depending on where I put the ecu and sensors. Then another couple of hours with software based setup before I can think about trying to start the car. 

And from then on, normally there is some troubleshooting with sensors etc for a couple of days before the car actually starts. 😂

It all depends what I want to use of old sensors etc. 

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Finally! After a year, I now have a proper clutch!

This is actually my original pressure plate that Spec clutch rebuild for me. As the first part they sent was for the normal 505's and not the turbo. I had to ship my original clutch, as that was the only way for them to do this work. Their suppliers couldn't get the right size. 

 

Clamp pressure is now 1900lbs and the clutch is rated and tested to 449 ftlb or 609nm!

received_737199673342587.jpeg

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received_2265281783734645.jpeg

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Looks great!  That can handle a ton of torque and still has the sprung center...

I noticed your turbo housing - I've wondered if it's the standard Ford 5 bolt flange so that it could be upgraded to this: 

ATP-WGT-023_450.jpg

 https://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-WGT-023&Category_Code=

Not sure what your power goals are, but the stock flange is horribly restrictive.   The newer n9te/a cars came with Cosworth style housings that flowed much better, but had smaller A/R.

Rabin

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1 hour ago, Bean said:

Looks great!  That can handle a ton of torque and still has the sprung center...

I noticed your turbo housing - I've wondered if it's the standard Ford 5 bolt flange so that it could be upgraded to this: 

ATP-WGT-023_450.jpg

 https://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-WGT-023&Category_Code=

Not sure what your power goals are, but the stock flange is horribly restrictive.   The newer n9te/a cars came with Cosworth style housings that flowed much better, but had smaller A/R.

Rabin

I actually have a GTX2860R turbo with T3 flange, that I originally bought to another car. Which I've now sold. So my plan was to use that turbo, with a stand alone ecu and other injectors etc. But I might change the 5-bolt flange and put on a 3" exhaust temporary. While i further develop the rest of the car. 

 

I'll still need some proper suspension so I can use my Gotti wheels. 

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Great turbo for this motor, but you'll have to modify the manifold or build new as it has a proprietary flange that's smaller than T3 and different then the T25.

This will be such an outstanding build once done!

Rabin

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54 minutes ago, Bean said:

Great turbo for this motor, but you'll have to modify the manifold or build new as it has a proprietary flange that's smaller than T3 and different then the T25.

This will be such an outstanding build once done!

Rabin

What is different? The bolt holes, the outlet or both? Is it possible to modify it, like on the Volvos with flanges different from the T3? 

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Sadly no - bolt pattern is smaller than T3, bigger than T25, and has a round outlet hole.

I'll post some pictures as I have a T25 flange to compare with.  

Options I've considered is to have the manifold milled out and have a T3 flange welded in, or have a v-band flange welded onto it and use a v-band inlet turbo housing.

Nice thing about the v-band turbo housings is the area of the opening is close to a T4 opening which means far less restriction. 

Rabin

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In that case, I would rather like a spare one from a parts car or something, so I dont ruin the only original I have for my car. If its possible to find? 

Unless its possible to find a ready build proper manifold with T3 flange? 

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The shape of the 505 flange is similar to a K24/K26 flange, how close are they dimensionwise? That's a really good question.

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K24/K26 off what car / application?   Lots of makes use proprietary designs, but I'm not familiar with "standard" K24/26 flanges. ie:  My 2006 Volvo V70R uses a K24 but it's the standard Volvo flange...  (Fantastic turbo btw!)

I've started cutting the flange off my old Volvo manifold as well just to see about it getting welded onto the Peugeot flange as well.

I've currently got a wee stock pile of them as I thought it would be neat to figure out a nice solution so that modern turbos would be a bolt on - But so few people ever show interest in building these motors that it's likely not a very good business model!

I won't be able to do much of anything till next week, but I'll take some pictures of what I've found so far as well as comparisons to the T3, T25, and Volvo flanges.

If you can't find a spare I can send one, but shipping alone will be $105 -$120CDN.  (Just shipped a N9TE camshaft to the UK and it was $105)

Rabin

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I can measure and confirm the Peugeot flange yes.  KKK design looks similar to the volvo design...

Adaptors are also difficult as there is little space above the motor mount.  Would need to be aware of the tight confines at least.

I did use Canada Post surface parcel as it was the cheapest by far.

Rabin

 

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You can find a GTX turbine housing with the K26 flange :

turbine-housing-k24-k26-063ar-for-gt30-g

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18 minutes ago, SRDT said:

You can find a GTX turbine housing with the K26 flange :

turbine-housing-k24-k26-063ar-for-gt30-g

I guess that probably will be the way to go with my turbo, if the flange is interchangeable with the 505 without modifications. 

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On 5/19/2019 at 12:29 AM, Bean said:

I can measure and confirm the Peugeot flange yes.  KKK design looks similar to the volvo design...

Adaptors are also difficult as there is little space above the motor mount.  Would need to be aware of the tight confines at least.

I did use Canada Post surface parcel as it was the cheapest by far.

Rabin

 

Hello.
Did you get any time to measure the flange pattern yet? 😎

 

Ronny

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Hi Ronny,

Apologies - My Mother in-law has been in palliative care the last few weeks and she passes away this weekend.

Once the family stuff settles down, I'll be back in town and get pics loaded up.

Rabin

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