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ofArc

Fixing my 1987 505 STI

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Hi all, I’d like to introduce myself and my new project, a 1987 505 5-speed STi.

 

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I’ve had two prior experiences with the Peugeot 505. A few months back at a local cars & coffee event (Katie’s, if anyone is from NoVA), a kind owner let me sit in his gray 505 and told me something to the effect of “it’s a neat car, but parts are hard to find and ownership is not for amateurs.”

 

The second experience was at Radwood Philadelphia, where two 505s were in attendance. I took a brief look, and thought that you’d have to be crazy to own a 30-year-old French car with no manufacturer support.

 

I must have lost my mind then, as when this 505 appeared on Craigslist I couldn’t resist its siren call. Following an amateurish pre-purchase inspection and test drive, I crossed my fingers and prepared to drive the car two hours home. Courtesy of a beautiful maroon V6 in a local junkyard, I picked up a few precautionary parts for the trip home.

 

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Expectations admittedly weren’t high, but the car made it home without any issues. I took it up to about 70 mph or so without issue, and it didn’t stutter in stop-and-go city traffic.

 

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Despite its encouraging debut performance, the car does have a few issues:

-Sunroof that won’t fully shut. I just fixed the cable before making this post, and I’ll write it up later.

-Incredibly dry rotted tires. See picture.

-Sloppy shifter. First gear is up-and-left neutral, second is down-and-left neutral, etc. I almost stalled the car several times starting in third instead of first.

-Both the heater and A/C don’t work. The A/C belt itself is missing from underhood, and I’m going to assume that’s for a reason. The heater issue might be electric, as the temp slider will only go halfway up before quitting.

-Broken gauge cluster. Only two needles actually move, the tachometer and the temp gauge. I purchased a new speedo cable and cluster off of the junkyard car, so hopefully that will fix it.

-The exhaust has quite a few holes in it. Above 2.5K revs, the car is loud. Admittedly, it is fun driving around and making a bunch of noise. I’ll fix it when it annoys me.

-It’s fortunate that the temp gauge works, as I’ve got a coolant leak. Coolant is dripping from the bottom of the water pump, so I’ll probably have to replace it.

-I’ve also got a slow brake fluid leak. The master cylinder looks wet, so likely end up replacing that too.

-Finally, the car has some cosmetic issues. The paint is faded, there’s some surface rust on the front left fender, the dash buttons are sticky, and the headlights are foggy. There’s also a few problems that I probably forgot.

 

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Not too bad, right?

 

I’ve fixed the sunroof issue, so the next problem I’ll tackle will be the water pump. Does anyone have info on the ZDJL water pump? I’ll probably get a new one off of eBay, unless there’s a way I can get it cheaper. Are there any specific steps I should take, or tools I should use? Any info at all would help, as I don’t want to go in taking things apart at random.

 

In the meantime, and this is going to sound dumb, where do I put new coolant in? I’m used to working on more modern cars. The car didn’t come with any manuals or other resources. The car is leaking green coolant. The big plastic tank holds blue fluid, which I’m guessing is for the wipers. I found a manual online that says to fill the radiator through the expansion tank, but the expansion tank is filled with red fluid. I checked under the radiator cap, and it’s filled with the green coolant. Do I just directly fill the radiator with coolant, or do I do something else?

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As you can probably tell, I’m going into Peugeot ownership somewhat blind. You’ve got to start somewhere though, and I’m eager to get my 505 back to it’s Gallic grand-touring glory.

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Congratulations on you're new ride!  

Definitely looks like a fixer upper - but they're a fun car even with the 2.2L NA motor and the 5sp can me a hoot.  My brother Arun lives in Charlottesville VA and has two 505 V6 5sp cars, and has done track events at VIR.

As for your question about topping up coolant:  Red circle is powersteering fluid (ATF), Green circle is the rad fluid level sensor, blue circle is the windshield washer reservoir.  There should be a hose off the rad - possibly the one that's visible that runs across the front - that goes to a coolant reservoir.  We never got the ZDJL (?) engine so I can't say for sure where it is - but there should be one somewhere.  The reservoir is usually where one fills the coolant.

Rabin

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Thanks for the help and the greetings! I'm not sure how I missed the expansion tank before, but I re-filled the system with coolant today. The low coolant light went out when I took the car for a drive, but I still need to check if the coolant in the tank is closer to the 'mini' or 'maxi' level. With the weather outside getting colder by the day and the car primarily being used for short trips, I'm not too concerned about the engine cooking itself.

I ordered a bunch of Peugeot technical manuals off of eBay today, which should help me with the water pump project. Until that's done, I'll top-off the coolant as needed.

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Welcome.

 

The container you painted/circled red is for PAS ATF (Power Assisted Steering). Please, do not pour coolant in there.

 

I couldn't see the coolant expansion tank in your engine bay (on picture you posted). Its usually mounted on left side. But not sure if that's the standard in ZDJL engine bay. There should be a small coolant hose that connects the coolant expansion tank to the radiator (around that radiator cover you circled green).

 

Ikenna351, Ling King - Monk.

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ofArc, Welcome to the forum

Beautiful introduction, and looks like someone has taken care for that car over the years. By the order of your fixes, your on the right track, as for the 505 they are simple to work on and extremely reliable, it's always the simplest thing.

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Oddly enough, the water pump has stopped leaking. I checked, and there's still coolant in both the radiator and the expansion tank. The temperature gauge holds steady during the short trips I take it on, so it seems like coolant is still circulating through the pump. I'm still going replace the pump to fix the leak that I saw earlier, but it's nice to have a car that fixes itself!

While I sort out the details of the pump, I've gotten some other work done. To commemorate my plates coming in, I repainted the rear fascia I got off of the junkyard 505. It definitely beats the old one.

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I also took the car to get a new set of tires installed. The old tires were three different brands and two different sizes. Driving it home, I was surprised at how much better the handling has become. Before, I was slightly disappointing in the steering. After reading so many vintage articles the beamed about the 505's handling, I was wondering what was different about mine. Now, I'm looking for excuses to take the car out for a drive.

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I also noticed that I need new rear brake pads, as right now, I don't seem to have any.

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What tire pressure is everyone running? Right now, I'm at 35 psi all around like most other modern cars. However, I looked later and saw that Peugeot recommended 29 psi front and 31 psi rear. I'm wondering if I should switch.

Also, the car came with the original remote entry fob. However, it doesn't have any batteries in it. I read online that it takes three batteries. I've tried several different types of watch batteries, but none fit. Does anyone know what kind of battery is required?

Thanks!

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Is your remote entry fob a Neiman or a Kiekert?
The Neiman one need 3x V13GA/LR44/A76.
The Kiekert one need 1x CR1/3N

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16 hours ago, ofArc said:

Oddly enough, the water pump has stopped leaking. I checked, and there's still coolant in both the radiator and the expansion tank. The temperature gauge holds steady during the short trips I take it on, so it seems like coolant is still circulating through the pump. I'm still going replace the pump to fix the leak that I saw earlier, but it's nice to have a car that fixes itself!

While I sort out the details of the pump, I've gotten some other work done. To commemorate my plates coming in, I repainted the rear fascia I got off of the junkyard 505. It definitely beats the old one.

IMG_8942.thumb.jpg.cd54029f1f78ff493458c288d05816fc.jpg

I also took the car to get a new set of tires installed. The old tires were three different brands and two different sizes. Driving it home, I was surprised at how much better the handling has become. Before, I was slightly disappointing in the steering. After reading so many vintage articles the beamed about the 505's handling, I was wondering what was different about mine. Now, I'm looking for excuses to take the car out for a drive.

IMG_8960.thumb.jpg.44054e52feae681959bcf41bc6d33671.jpg

I also noticed that I need new rear brake pads, as right now, I don't seem to have any.

IMG_8949.thumb.jpg.67ace599dfa5b2c51f096af4e8ad0dc1.jpg

What tire pressure is everyone running? Right now, I'm at 35 psi all around like most other modern cars. However, I looked later and saw that Peugeot recommended 29 psi front and 31 psi rear. I'm wondering if I should switch.

Also, the car came with the original remote entry fob. However, it doesn't have any batteries in it. I read online that it takes three batteries. I've tried several different types of watch batteries, but none fit. Does anyone know what kind of battery is required?

Thanks!

I leave mine minimum of 35 psi and maximum 40 psi. I don't let them go below 35 psi. I know its not factory psi, but I am ok with that, considering nature of Nigerian roads. My tyres size is factory though (195/60 R15).

 

Ikenna351, Lion King - Monk.

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What tires did you get?  I find tire construction, speed rating, and driving style play into pressures.  

If the tire is performance oriented with stiffer sidewalls I run close to factory settings, but if they're cheaper tires with soft sidewall I run 40+ as I'm all about handling my driving style.

I'd also recommend checking the caliper as the disk is not showing a polished / clean brake surface - or were they quite rusty and that is the surface? 

Rabin

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I put on a set of BFG Advantage T/A Sports, a pretty middle-of-the-road tire. They're rated to go 130 mph/209 kph, which I don't intend on testing. For a car that made 120 hp from the factory 31 years ago, they should be more than enough. Thank you for the pressure advice everyone, I'll keep them at 35 psi for now.

Good call on checking out the caliper! I took a sharpie and scribbled on the rotor before I went for a short drive. It was gone when I came back, so the caliper is clasping the rotor. The car had sat for a while before I bought it, and I haven't been driving it too much, so I think it's just residual rust.

Here's a picture of the fob. It might be the later Kiekert kind, but I don't see any markings either inside or outside the casing.

 

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On mine it's on the bottom part, "NEIMAN" on this side and "PLIP" on the other.
Can you take pictures of the inside?

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I took apart the fob, and it's definitely a Kiekert! You can see the markings on the circuit board in the second picture. Here are some pictures of the inside, if anyone is curious:

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My 91 405 Mi16x4 has the same remote, it has the name NEIMAN on the cap, you can see it in the picture, it uses Rl44 standard size batteries 3 pieces and you can see the orientation of them in the pictures, there is not much that can go wrong with them, check if the sensor is plugged in, is located in the car next to the dome light, i've unplugged it on my car because i have a more modern alarm installed and the IR system is much easier to hack with a Tv remote. Hope this helps you.

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The Kiekert should use CR1/3N batteries, maybe even two of them looking at how it is inside.

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Great tire choice!  So hard to find decent 15" tires now, and those are just fine.  (I like mine with some sporting intentions rather than a touring or commuter tire).

Brakes: Bit of work, but I'd recommend getting the rotors turned before putting new pads on.  At the very least I'd use a pad sander with some 80 grit metal sand paper to knock the rust down.

Rabin

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Nowadays I scan Craigslist for 15 inch used Michelin’s.  More than once I have been delighted.

Sometimes they are attached to alloy wheels from something that can be sold to offset.

The local vocational high school  near me has an auto tech program  that offers mounting and balancing for a whopping $3 a pop.

i just take in loose wheels, no muss or fuss.

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I did spend some time on Craigslist, but none of the listings were the right size. Bill, I'll have to see if there's any vocational programs like that near me. Something like that may be helpful in the future if I ever decide to get winter tires.

Sanding the rust off the rotors is a good idea. Since the rotors themselves have a decent bit of life left, I'll hit them with a coat of paint when I have them off. That should keep rust off the rotor hat, and make the whole thing a little more presentable.

Talking about brakes, I've tracked down the source of my brake fluid leak. The seal between the fluid reservoir and the master cylinder isn't water (fluid?) tight, causing a slow trickle. I'm not sure if it's an issue with the rubber washer/o-ring, or if it's a master cylinder problem. I could hit the ring with a coat of RTV and see what happens, but we'll save the homebrew fixes for things that won't kill me if they fail!

Looks like the Kiekert fobs take 2x CR1/3N batteries. With the batteries in, I can see the fob working, but the car doesn't pick up the signal. A little disappointing, but not too big of an issue. I'll fix it when I have nothing better to correct. So it may be a while...

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I also got a set of new shifter bushings off of eBay. They're 3D printed from some combination of wonderplastic, so they shouldn't fall out like (I think) the old ones did. I've still got to get underneath the car to check out the actual situation with the shift rods, but the bushings were cheap enough that I figured I may as well hope for the best. If anyone else is looking for better bushings, they were sold by seller pyramidpeugeot. I don't know if there's any left, but I'd imagine more will eventually be made. I can't speak to their quality as they're not in the car yet, but they've got a leg up on the old ones as they exist while the current ones, well, don't.

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I've ordered the new water pump, too. Since the current one seems to be working for the time being, I may delay that project until things warm up a bit outside. I'll be learning soon if my heater works or not...

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On the tires, it takes time, so I check back every week or so.  There is a little bit of wiggle room on sizes, and you nave to be careful about mixing sizes. Same size on axles, especially in the rear, as the spider gears are not happy if you don't.  All four the same is optimal. You can check the dates on the tires. The last four digits of the serial number tell you that.  I keep that under seven years or so.  I once found a set of MXV4's that came mounted on Toyota wheels.  I sold the wheels separately essentially making the tires free.  The original owner had bought some fancy wheels.

The fluid leak sure sounds like the master cylinder.  I lean toward those that are made in Italy, as it is not a place to try and save a few bucks.  Caution when replacing is in order to try and not bend the lines, as the fine thread fittings bolting back up can be a witch with B if you don't. We have a great bleeding technique that I learned a while back from the boys here.

They call the Keikert a PLIP.  The OEM ones have a limited range.  Ebay has newer ones that connect into the existing wires, and have a better range.  I think that they are about 20 bucks or so, but you have to know where to look.

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