I've only seen 1 fadec on all the new planes I work with. I rather like the
homebuilt market that has electronic ignition with a magneto (read reliable
and self contained) backup. Haven't seen any Peugeot connecters after 1982
model, as long as its sealed from weather, I'm OK.
Joe
- Original Message -----
OnFrom: "(-Phil-)" <listacct@mindfart.com>
To: <peugeot-L@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Peugeot-L] Re: Electrical Quality
> I'd say, in general, Electronics have made vehicles (planes too) more
> reliable and safer, not less. Trick is to implement the systems correctly
> with sound engineering practices. I bet many pilots have lived to fly
> another day because they had a FADEC system instead of an iced carb. Same
> thing for Airbags, ABS, etc. Would you fly a plane if you noticed there
> were Peugeot-style connectors on the FADEC harness?! =)
>
> In my "day job" I am often called on to engineer electronic systems for
> harsh environments, so I know it can be done with careful design. It
> takes
> attention to the mechanical engineering not just the electrical
> engineering
> alone. Peugeot seems to constantly miss this aspect, and if appears their
> electrical engineering department is only getting worse. (or maybe they
> are
> a constant, but the problems are more frequent as the systems get more
> pervasive)
>
> While I know that aviation is much more strict, (you pretty much can't put
> non-certified ANYTHING in your aircraft) automotive electrical engineering
> doesn't have to live with these restrictions, and still has managed to
> achieve very reliable systems. You just don't see these kinds of failures
> on a Lexus, for instance!
>
> I was shocked to hear that the Prius (loaded with electronics) has only
> had
> one electronic issue. (and it was a software bug) That car is a radical
> design without prior history, so I would have expected more problems in
> the
> field, but it just goes to show you that it CAN be done right, and without
> raising costs.
>
> Then there is the driver factor.... If you can't drive (or fly), you
> shouldn't be trying to do it, electronics or not. Still it would be hard
> to
> argue that a Terrain warning system or an ABS system could be detrimental
> to
> a properly trained pilot/driver, no?
>
> -Phil
> ----- Original Message -----
On
> From: "J. Ashment" <wyofisher@caldsl.com>
> To: "Ben Pender" <ben_pender@yahoo.com>
> Cc: "Peugeot-L" <peugeot-l@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 9:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [Peugeot-L] Re: Electrical Quality
>
>
>> Funny, we have the same arguments in aviation. I install some pretty
>> sofisticated equipment, yet still fly behind 20 year old radios in a very
>> low tech aircraft. Compass and map are the best tools to fly by. I
>> swear
>> some of my customers would die if the power when out, with the moving map
>> gps, autopilot, electronic charts, electronic flight displays, traffic
>> warning systems, satellite weather, terrain warning systems. Lost a good
>> customer because he couldn't handle his electronic marvel and fly the
>> danged
>> plane.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
On
>> From: "Ben Pender" <ben_pender@yahoo.com>
>> To: "PeugeotGroup" <peugeot-l@yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 8:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Peugeot-L] Re: Electrical Quality
>>
>>
>>> Hugo,
>>>
>>> At the risk of being flamed, I think that anyone who
>>> buys all that crap deserves all that trouble!!!
>>>
>>> :^)
>>>
>>> Integrated radio? Just get a decent aftermarket
>>> unit and install. It could care less what the rest of
>>> the car is doing, as long as it gets 12V, more or
>>> less.
>>>
>>> Automatic wipers?!?!? And I thought only fat,
>>> stupid Americans were so lazy that they couldn't reach
>>> over and switch the wipers on. And, really, its not
>>> much of a reach.
>>>
>>> Drive by wire? How many throttle cables have you
>>> ever seen break? Not many would be my guess. And if
>>> they did, you just buy a new cable and install. Not
>>> very hard, or expensive for that matter. And, as a
>>> benefit, you don't have some failure-prone computer
>>> looking over your shoulder. As strange as it may
>>> sound, especially given the average intelligence and
>>> driving skill of Americans, letting them have direct
>>> and deliberate control over the throttle is probably
>>> best.
>>>
>>> Satellite navigation unit? I've got a solid state
>>> nav unit in my cars. A MAP! My god, if you have to
>>> have a nav unit to get you around the block, you
>>> really shouldn't be driving. And screen? People say
>>> that looking at a map is distracting. I'd say its no
>>> more than a bright, pretty nav screen taking up all
>>> kinds of space on the dash.
>>>
>>> Automatic lights? I usually realize that I should
>>> turn my lights on when I can't see because its dark.
>>> I've been turning my lights on and off all by myself
>>> for years now. Its hard not to realize that its dark
>>> out. And, if you can't realize that, then you really
>>> should be driving.
>>>
>>> Engine management, turbo, and the other mechanical
>>> (what there is left that is mechanical) I can see the
>>> frustration.
>>>
>>> The only thing that prevents it from being an
>>> American car is it doesn't (yet) have power doors so
>>> you don't have to expend the energy to actually swing
>>> one open.
>>>
>>> Anyway, all this unnecessary content is just
>>> problems waiting to happen. And, all the complexity
>>> means more weight, which means bigger more powerful
>>> engines, which means better and heavier construction
>>> which means more powerful engines, and so on until you
>>> have what we have in America-roadways crowded with
>>> 6500# behemouths piloted by lazy (power/automatic
>>> everything, even doors), inept, incompetent, and
>>> ultimately un-focused drivers.
>>>
>>> Oh, well, to each his own. But I'll tell you one
>>> thing. The manual windows in my cars will outlast
>>> even the best power windows. And, they go up and down
>>> as fast as I care to make them! My radio? Doesn't
>>> know its in a foreign car. Doesn't care. 12V neg
>>> ground is all that matters. And it was cheap.
>>> Headlights/wipers/throttle control-well that's been
>>> discussed already.
>>>
>>> Good luck with your Crays! If you ever need a ride,
>>> call me!
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Ben Pender
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- hugo_steincamp <hsteincamp@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Electrics, software bugs, electronic going haywire
>>>> seem to be common
>>>> place in the 307, old or new. And that's only part
>>>> of it. I wouldn't
>>>> touch one with a 44 ft. pole. Here's a 2005 307:
>>>>
>>>> New Turbo Charger at 1000 miles.
>>>>
>>>> New engine management system at 2500 miles.
>>>>
>>>> Cruise control fails to cut out when needed to.
>>>>
>>>> Throttle action jerky and unresponsive.
>>>>
>>>> Radio jumps from one station to the next, and
>>>> apparently if it
>>>> doesn't like the channel, it switches on the CD
>>>> changer, which then
>>>> usually doesn't work after about 5 minutes.
>>>>
>>>> CD changer damages CD's whilst loading them.
>>>>
>>>> New EGR valve fitted.
>>>>
>>>> New CD changer, Sat Nav unit, and display screen
>>>> fitted.
>>>>
>>>> Fuel consumption has never been better than 32.1 to
>>>> the gallon,
>>>> depite the official figures being over 60mpg. I
>>>> would at least expect
>>>> 40-45 on a decent run.
>>>>
>>>> Another new engine management system at 8000 miles.
>>>> Also yet another
>>>> attempt at fixing all the various electrical
>>>> problems affecting the
>>>> CD/Sat Nav/Telematics package, to no avail.
>>>>
>>>> Fuel consumption getting worse, and the performance
>>>> for a 136HP car
>>>> is appalling, no power, feels more like a 90hp
>>>> engine.
>>>>
>>>> Automatic headlight system failed, lights stuck on
>>>> permanently now.
>>>>
>>>> Rain sensor would not know water if you stuck it in
>>>> a bucket of the
>>>> stuff, which means the auto wipers also don't work
>>>> now.
>>>>
>>>> On occasion, the car simply will not start, like a
>>>> dead battery, only
>>>> everything else works, just not the engine/starter.
>>>> Great for
>>>> confidence when away from home.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- In peugeot-L@yahoogroups.com, Francois Dion
>>>> <francois.dion@g...>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > The 307 first year was pretty bad. "Electricals"
>>>> however is a
>>>> misnomer
>>>> > for many issues. Lots of components communicate on
>>>> a serial bus now
>>>> > and a lot of issues were firmware related.
>>>> >
>>>> > Look at the comments from the more recent 307 sw,
>>>> people are very
>>>> happy with it.
>>>> >
>>>> > BTW, who was supplying the electronics on the
>>>> early 307 and who is
>>>> > supplying now?
>>>> >
>>>> > As far as the 505, how many of us have owned their
>>>> 505 since new and
>>>> > how many issues only appeared late in the life of
>>>> the vehicule? I
>>>> know
>>>> > I've had some issues but really cant complain as
>>>> I've gotten all my
>>>> > 505 with > 100K miles and > 10 years and most were
>>>> caused by my
>>>> > procrastination, and 1 on the 91 wagon by a
>>>> ravenous mouse or
>>>> > squirrel. So again, I cant complain.
>>>> >
>>>> > If you think things are bad now, wait until you
>>>> get a hybrid and
>>>> every
>>>> > 3 years you have to replace your battery bank out
>>>> of warranty (and
>>>> > probably a few anciliary boards for voltage
>>>> regulation that
>>>> overheated
>>>> > from a brownout condition).
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________________________
>>> Do You Yahoo!?
>>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>>> http://mail.yahoo.com
>>>
>>>
>>> Recommended format for your email subject lines:
>>> Model # [Model Letters] Year Subject
>>>
>>> Examples:
>>> 505 88 V6 Mileage
>>> 405 Mi16 89 Ignition Coil source?
>>> ************************************************
>>> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank email message to
>>> PEUGEOT-L-UNSUBSCRIBE@EGROUPS.COM
>>> ************************************************
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Recommended format for your email subject lines:
>> Model # [Model Letters] Year Subject
>>
>> Examples:
>> 505 88 V6 Mileage
>> 405 Mi16 89 Ignition Coil source?
>> ************************************************
>> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank email message to
>> PEUGEOT-L-UNSUBSCRIBE@EGROUPS.COM
>> ************************************************
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> Recommended format for your email subject lines:
> Model # [Model Letters] Year Subject
>
> Examples:
> 505 88 V6 Mileage
> 405 Mi16 89 Ignition Coil source?
> ************************************************
> To unsubscribe from this list send a blank email message to
> PEUGEOT-L-UNSUBSCRIBE@EGROUPS.COM
> ************************************************
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Recommended format for your email subject lines:
Model # [Model Letters] Year Subject
Examples:
505 88 V6 Mileage
405 Mi16 89 Ignition Coil source?
To unsubscribe from this list send a blank email message to PEUGEOT-L-UNSUBSCRIBE@EGROUPS.COM
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/peugeot-L/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
peugeot-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Received on Tue Jan 24 23:51:24 2006
