Phil,
Thanks for this. I will have a look at it this weekend. I am off to
Los Gatos later today with a couple of spare relays in hand (well, in
glove box). Could it be (have been) that it was just a bad, kind of
cooked plug, where the pigtail connects to the relay that caused all
the problems?
Thanks,
Ken
On Apr 15, 2005, at 10:21 AM, (Phil) wrote:
> I would imagine the relay warmth is only the coil generating heat.
>
> I still am leaning that problem is simply a recurring nightmare of bad
> connections. Any other random shorts would definitely be blowing
> fuses, and you've confirmed that the fuse is indeed in the circuit.
> The other thing you might do temporarily as a diagnostic measure is
> put in a lower amperage fuse. Maybe if you have a "so-so short" (low
> resistance, but not totally shorted) you are pushing close to 25 amps
> that isn't blowing the fuse, but that might be enough to find all your
> weak spots.
>
> Have you confirmed your scavenger pump is indeed working? They fail
> so easily that yours could simply be stuck and sucking down amps and
> acting as a "Fuel Pre-heater" rather than a pump. The fuel keeps the
> pump cool with the stuck rotor, so it doesn't burn out and go open
> circuit.
>
> SCAVENGER PUMP DIAGNOSTIC HOWTO:
>
> The most simple way is to go to the trunk (boot) when the car is not
> running and take a wire jumper and connect it to +12 (available at the
> power antenna plug) and directly feed the scavenger pump wire going
> into the tank. It is the single wire by itself with the round
> "barrel" connector. Be sure NOT to feed power into the fuel sender
> (multiple wires on blade terminals), and also insure you are feeding
> power to the tank, not the car side of the round connector. You
> should hear the audible "whir" of the pump if it is working correctly.
>
> Another symptom of scavenger failure are bubbles in your fuel. You
> can hear them in the main pump, it's like a gurgling sound that
> occasionally happens, with the frequency much higher as the fuel runs
> low. My '85 has a inop scavenger, and it drives fine. I consider the
> "gurgling" sound a feature, it lets me know when I'm low on fuel! =)
>
> -Phil
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "kenneth parker" <elkeni@mac.com>
> To: "pyoung" <bf135@scn.org>
> Cc: "peugeot-L@yahoogroups.com List'" <peugeot-l@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 9:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [Peugeot-L] 505 XN6) tachymetric tachycardia
>
>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 14, 2005, at 7:54 PM, pyoung wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 14, 2005, at 11:07 AM, kenneth parker wrote:
>>>
>>>> Questions are:
>>>> 1. I assume that the "pigtail" is an "improvement", but is it
>>>> necessary?
>>> Pigtail made it possible to use the later, post- 85 7 pin
>>> tachymetric
>>> relay.
>>> No It is not necessary.
>>>
>>>> 2. Is the "pigtail" piece of wiring with its seven pin and six pin
>>>> plugs available new?
>>> Possibly Brian Holm.
>>>> 3. If not, where can I find a new seven pin plug (new, not used)?
>>> Ditto above.
>>>
>>> Have you traced the wires back from the 6 pin connector? If the 'new'
>>> relays are getting fried too much juice (amps?) is passing through
>>> it. This, to me, would indicate a bad ground or more likely a bad
>>> connection in the wire which got fried, downstream from the relay. My
>>> vote is the #76 wire which feeds the fuel pumps.
>>> Eduardo's suggestion of the auxiliary relay on the fuel pump feed
>>> wire
>>> is exactly right and is what I did 4 years ago to solve this over
>>> heating in the relay.
>>>
>>> Peat
>>>
>>>
>> Peat,
>> First of all, thanks for taking the time to respond to my post.
>> Tracing the wires back from the six pin connector very quickly results
>> in encountering a bundle of wires crammed under the dash that
>> resembles
>> the CNS (central nervous system). I would have to split the
>> protective
>> casings and cut my fingers into small strips to truly trace them back
>> (at least visually).
>>
>> The two fattest wires in the bundle are #76 and #20G. If #76 goes to
>> the pumps then couldn't I just hook it up to a continuity tester (or
>> any of the other wires, for that matter) to see if it is continuous?
>>
>> By way of history: I've had the car for three years. One time, about
>> a year ago the car wouldn't start (thinking back to that time it could
>> have been relay related). I waited a few minutes and tried it again
>> and it started. Several months later it happened again and would not
>> start at all. That is when I discovered that the relay had burnt out.
>>
>> I replaced the relay at that time with a new one that lasted three
>> weeks. When I did this I noticed that the fattest wire that went to
>> pin #30 on the the seven pin plug was brittle near the plug. I cut it
>> back, re-crimped an end on it and when I was trying to get it back in
>> the seven pin plug the plug started to decompose. I got it together
>> and rapped the plug with electrical tape to keep it from falling apart
>> any further. Before the new one failed completely it would start
>> after
>> letting the system cool off for a few minutes.
>>
>> Then I put in a used relay that worked well for several weeks until
>> last weekend. When the car wouldn't start I just plugged in another
>> relay. The relay that I took out looked and smelled fine (the new one
>> that failed before was badly discolored at pin #30 and smelled burnt.
>> For all I know the relay I removed and changed with yet another used
>> one last week was okay and that the plug was the only problem.
>>
>> For the moment I am up and running with a 6 pin relay and have the
>> pigtail here on my desk. I have a couple of spare 6 pinners, but it
>> is
>> no way to get around (there are some pretty hairy bridges and freeway
>> interchanges to negotiate in the SF Bay Area). This weekend, if I
>> have
>> the time, I will reinstall the pigtail and see if I can get the failed
>> relay that looks and smells okay to work.
>>
>> I don't mean to beat a dead relay, but this has caused me a lot of
>> grief these last several weeks. Did you install the auxiliary relay
>> on
>> a 6 or 7 pin system? If you have the time, could you please indicate
>> the exact relay set-up to me. I would need to know what kind and
>> rating to buy, where you installed it (under car, under dash) and what
>> wires went where.
>>
>> Also, I notice that the relay gets warm when the car is operating (all
>> plastic is removed from under steering wheel, so access is easy). It
>> doesn't get hot, only warm. Is this natural or suggestive of a short
>> or other problem? I have checked and the relay is on the proper
>> circuit (fuse #6). If I pull the fuse with the car running the car
>> stalls. If there is a bad wire or bad ground shouldn't that 25 amp
>> fuse blow before the relay fries?
>> Thanks, and thanks for responding to my post,
>> Ken
>>
>>
>>
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Received on Fri Apr 15 11:53:57 2005
