Brings up the question of why the extension and 7 pin relay was
installed in the first place though.
Peat
On Apr 15, 2005, at 11:59 AM, (Phil) wrote:
>
> Yes, a bad connection on the power wire from the fusebox or the output
> wire
> to the pumps will cause large amounts of heat buildup which could fail
> the
> relay internally. Save your old ones that are bad, I will be able to
> look
> inside and determine exactly what happened.
>
> -Phil
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "kenneth parker" <elkeni@mac.com>
> To: "(Phil)" <yes_this_is_really_my_email_address@mindfart.com>
> Cc: "pyoung" <bf135@scn.org>; "peugeot-L@yahoogroups.com List'"
> <peugeot-l@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 11:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [Peugeot-L] 505 XN6) tachymetric tachycardia - Fuel
> Preheater &
> scavenger diagnostic HOWTO
>
>
>> Phil,
>> Thanks for this. I will have a look at it this weekend. I am off to
>> Los
>> Gatos later today with a couple of spare relays in hand (well, in
>> glove
>> box). Could it be (have been) that it was just a bad, kind of cooked
>> plug, where the pigtail connects to the relay that caused all the
>> problems?
>> Thanks,
>> Ken
>> On Apr 15, 2005, at 10:21 AM, (Phil) wrote:
>>
>>> I would imagine the relay warmth is only the coil generating heat.
>>>
>>> I still am leaning that problem is simply a recurring nightmare of
>>> bad
>>> connections. Any other random shorts would definitely be blowing
>>> fuses,
>>> and you've confirmed that the fuse is indeed in the circuit. The
>>> other
>>> thing you might do temporarily as a diagnostic measure is put in a
>>> lower
>>> amperage fuse. Maybe if you have a "so-so short" (low resistance,
>>> but
>>> not totally shorted) you are pushing close to 25 amps that isn't
>>> blowing
>>> the fuse, but that might be enough to find all your weak spots.
>>>
>>> Have you confirmed your scavenger pump is indeed working? They fail
>>> so
>>> easily that yours could simply be stuck and sucking down amps and
>>> acting
>>> as a "Fuel Pre-heater" rather than a pump. The fuel keeps the pump
>>> cool
>>> with the stuck rotor, so it doesn't burn out and go open circuit.
>>>
>>> SCAVENGER PUMP DIAGNOSTIC HOWTO:
>>>
>>> The most simple way is to go to the trunk (boot) when the car is not
>>> running and take a wire jumper and connect it to +12 (available at
>>> the
>>> power antenna plug) and directly feed the scavenger pump wire going
>>> into
>>> the tank. It is the single wire by itself with the round "barrel"
>>> connector. Be sure NOT to feed power into the fuel sender (multiple
>>> wires on blade terminals), and also insure you are feeding power to
>>> the
>>> tank, not the car side of the round connector. You should hear the
>>> audible "whir" of the pump if it is working correctly.
>>>
>>> Another symptom of scavenger failure are bubbles in your fuel. You
>>> can
>>> hear them in the main pump, it's like a gurgling sound that
>>> occasionally
>>> happens, with the frequency much higher as the fuel runs low. My
>>> '85
>>> has a inop scavenger, and it drives fine. I consider the "gurgling"
>>> sound a feature, it lets me know when I'm low on fuel! =)
>>>
>>> -Phil
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "kenneth parker" <elkeni@mac.com>
>>> To: "pyoung" <bf135@scn.org>
>>> Cc: "peugeot-L@yahoogroups.com List'" <peugeot-l@yahoogroups.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 9:28 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Peugeot-L] 505 XN6) tachymetric tachycardia
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 14, 2005, at 7:54 PM, pyoung wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 14, 2005, at 11:07 AM, kenneth parker wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Questions are:
>>>>>> 1. I assume that the "pigtail" is an "improvement", but is it
>>>>>> necessary?
>>>>> Pigtail made it possible to use the later, post- 85 7 pin
>>>>> tachymetric
>>>>> relay.
>>>>> No It is not necessary.
>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Is the "pigtail" piece of wiring with its seven pin and six
>>>>>> pin
>>>>>> plugs available new?
>>>>> Possibly Brian Holm.
>>>>>> 3. If not, where can I find a new seven pin plug (new, not used)?
>>>>> Ditto above.
>>>>>
>>>>> Have you traced the wires back from the 6 pin connector? If the
>>>>> 'new'
>>>>> relays are getting fried too much juice (amps?) is passing through
>>>>> it. This, to me, would indicate a bad ground or more likely a bad
>>>>> connection in the wire which got fried, downstream from the relay.
>>>>> My
>>>>> vote is the #76 wire which feeds the fuel pumps.
>>>>> Eduardo's suggestion of the auxiliary relay on the fuel pump feed
>>>>> wire
>>>>> is exactly right and is what I did 4 years ago to solve this over
>>>>> heating in the relay.
>>>>>
>>>>> Peat
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Peat,
>>>> First of all, thanks for taking the time to respond to my post.
>>>> Tracing the wires back from the six pin connector very quickly
>>>> results
>>>> in encountering a bundle of wires crammed under the dash that
>>>> resembles
>>>> the CNS (central nervous system). I would have to split the
>>>> protective
>>>> casings and cut my fingers into small strips to truly trace them
>>>> back
>>>> (at least visually).
>>>>
>>>> The two fattest wires in the bundle are #76 and #20G. If #76 goes
>>>> to
>>>> the pumps then couldn't I just hook it up to a continuity tester (or
>>>> any of the other wires, for that matter) to see if it is continuous?
>>>>
>>>> By way of history: I've had the car for three years. One time,
>>>> about
>>>> a year ago the car wouldn't start (thinking back to that time it
>>>> could
>>>> have been relay related). I waited a few minutes and tried it again
>>>> and it started. Several months later it happened again and would
>>>> not
>>>> start at all. That is when I discovered that the relay had burnt
>>>> out.
>>>>
>>>> I replaced the relay at that time with a new one that lasted three
>>>> weeks. When I did this I noticed that the fattest wire that went to
>>>> pin #30 on the the seven pin plug was brittle near the plug. I cut
>>>> it
>>>> back, re-crimped an end on it and when I was trying to get it back
>>>> in
>>>> the seven pin plug the plug started to decompose. I got it
>>>> together
>>>> and rapped the plug with electrical tape to keep it from falling
>>>> apart
>>>> any further. Before the new one failed completely it would start
>>>> after
>>>> letting the system cool off for a few minutes.
>>>>
>>>> Then I put in a used relay that worked well for several weeks until
>>>> last weekend. When the car wouldn't start I just plugged in another
>>>> relay. The relay that I took out looked and smelled fine (the new
>>>> one
>>>> that failed before was badly discolored at pin #30 and smelled
>>>> burnt.
>>>> For all I know the relay I removed and changed with yet another used
>>>> one last week was okay and that the plug was the only problem.
>>>>
>>>> For the moment I am up and running with a 6 pin relay and have the
>>>> pigtail here on my desk. I have a couple of spare 6 pinners, but
>>>> it is
>>>> no way to get around (there are some pretty hairy bridges and
>>>> freeway
>>>> interchanges to negotiate in the SF Bay Area). This weekend, if I
>>>> have
>>>> the time, I will reinstall the pigtail and see if I can get the
>>>> failed
>>>> relay that looks and smells okay to work.
>>>>
>>>> I don't mean to beat a dead relay, but this has caused me a lot of
>>>> grief these last several weeks. Did you install the auxiliary
>>>> relay on
>>>> a 6 or 7 pin system? If you have the time, could you please
>>>> indicate
>>>> the exact relay set-up to me. I would need to know what kind and
>>>> rating to buy, where you installed it (under car, under dash) and
>>>> what
>>>> wires went where.
>>>>
>>>> Also, I notice that the relay gets warm when the car is operating
>>>> (all
>>>> plastic is removed from under steering wheel, so access is easy).
>>>> It
>>>> doesn't get hot, only warm. Is this natural or suggestive of a
>>>> short
>>>> or other problem? I have checked and the relay is on the proper
>>>> circuit (fuse #6). If I pull the fuse with the car running the car
>>>> stalls. If there is a bad wire or bad ground shouldn't that 25 amp
>>>> fuse blow before the relay fries?
>>>> Thanks, and thanks for responding to my post,
>>>> Ken
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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Received on Fri Apr 15 13:04:22 2005
