Thanos,
At what altitude are you? If you are less than
5000feet or 1600 meters, I wouldn't worry about it.
Even if you are at that altitude or even slightly
higher, it really shouldn't change things that much.
The altitude corrector is there to increase control
pressure which would have the effect of pushing down
on the plunger in the fuel distributor and thereby
lean out the mixture. If it failed, and you are at
elevation, it could lead to an overly rich mixture.
If it failed, and you are at a relatively low
elevation, it would have very little effect. The
point is, if it has failed, disconnecting it won't do
anything.
The altitude compensator, as mentioned above,
manipulates the control pressure which pushes down the
plunger in the fuel distributor. There is a sealed
chamber in the base of the control pressure regulator
(cpr), the thing on the engine block, that expands as
atmospheric pressure drops. This then moves a
diaphram in the cpr which allows more fuel, and thus
pressure, to be directed to the top of the plunger in
the fuel dist, which then pushes it down, reduces slit
size, and reduces fuel flow to the injectors. If the
expansion chamber in the cpr has ruptured, AND you are
at significant elevation, your control pressure will
be too low and you COULD get the symptoms you are
reporting, although I doubt they would be as extreme
as yours are.
Regards,
Ben Pender
some MGs
some VWs
some Audis
some Yugos
and a Fiat X1/9
- Karydas <karydas@hol.gr> wrote:
> Another thought that just occurred to me: There is
> an "altitude
> corrector" that is between the air filter pot and
> the injection pump.
> Could this be malfunctioning and calling for excess
> fuel? Should I
> bypass it and test again?
>
> Thanos
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: peugeot-L@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:peugeot-L@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Ben Pender
> Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 7:29 AM
> To: PeugeotGroup
> Subject: Re: [Peugeot-L] 504 XN2 Super Rich mixture
>
> Thanos, Bob,
>
> He probably means 3 BAR (or atmospheres, or about
> 46
> psi). I'm not familiar with the specifics on the
> K-jet system for the Pugs, but with similar vintage
> VWs, the system pressure should be in the
> neighborhood
> of 60-70psi or about 4.5 bar.
>
> I would bet that the cold start injector, or the
> "5th injector" is leaking profusely. And, if the
> pressure really is on the very low side, then the
> engine could be running on the csi only. Either
> way,
> the excessive fuel is washing the oil off the
> cylinders which is why hot compression figures are
> lower than cold. It also makes sense that the lower
> pressures would be 3 and 4 as that is where the
> majority of dribbled fuel would end up if the csi
> were
> leaking.
>
> I would make sure that the fuel pressure is where
> it
> should be. Certainly, with K-jet, the pressure
> needs
> to be much higher than 3 psi, if indeed, that was
> not
> a mis print. Most K-jet injectors won't (shouldn't)
> even open at less than 55psi or better. However,
> since the csi is an electrical injector very simialr
> to a pulsed injector, it would spray fuel regardless
> the pressure as long as it was electrically
> triggered.
> If it has a carb, and the spec is 1-2.5 and the
> pressure is 3, it could be flooding the carb, which
> would also cause these problems.
>
> Adjusting K-jet is easy. Between the fuel
> distributor and where the air intake snorkely is
> attached, there should be a small hole. Inside this
> there is a small adjustment screw, usually a 3mm
> allen
> screw that is used to adjust CO. I would only mess
> with this as a last resort when you are sure
> everything else has been ruled out. The fact that
> your fuel pressure data is funky is a sign that you
> probably need to go back and reconfirm everything,
> INCLUDING units! Units are very important, just ask
> NASA, who had a major un-manned space probe mission
> fail because someone did the calculations using
> standard (English) units, while the rest of the
> international partners used metric.
>
> Regards,
> Ben Pender
> some MGs
> some VWs
> some Audis
> some Yugos
> and a Fiat X1/9
>
> --- Bob Bruce <bobbruce@mts.net> wrote:
>
> > If your mechanic adjusted the valves using the "on
> > the rock" method it will not work out.
> > The valves must be adjusted according to the
> factory
> > method
> > this method will be in any Peugeot shop manual or
> I
> > can explain it.
> >
> > The head should be retorqued every 30,000 KM
> before
> > the valves are adjusted
> > if there is any question the head bolts should be
> > pulled one at a time and all the threads
> > on the bolts and in the block cleaned
> >
> > I am surprized at the fuel pressure, 3 psi is
> about
> > what the mechanical fuel
> > pump delivers to the 504 with carbs. I would have
> > thought the injected car with its
> > electric pump would be higher.
> >
> > Bob
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: pkarydas
> > To: peugeot-L@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 1:03 PM
> > Subject: [Peugeot-L] 504 XN2 Super Rich mixture
> >
> >
> > Went to my mechanic with an intermittent
> stalling
> > problem on my 1973
> > 504 injection. It felt like fuel starvation and
> I
> > suspected some
> > sort of obstruction in the fuel line. He did a
> > cold cylinder
> > compression test which showed 125psi for
> cylinders
> > 1 and 4, and
> > 120psi for 2 and 3. (I know the engine is
> > supposed to be warm when
> > testing for compression.) This is what they
> did:
> > Cleaned out the
> > gas tank, replaced the fuel filters, back and
> > front, adjusted the
> > valves, changed oil and filter, replaced spark
> > plugs and ignition
> > wires, and checked timing and fuel and oil
> > pressures. They did an
> > exhaust analysis and compression testing after
> the
> > engine warmed
> > up. Cylinder 1, 120psi; cylinder 2, 125psi;
> > cylinders 3 and 4,
> > 100psi. This left me scratching my head because
> > the compression
> > should have gone up, not down, with the warm
> > engine and left me
> > suspecting a valve adjustment screw-up. Could it
> > be anything else?
> > Fuel pressure was good at 3psi (spec 1-2.5psi)
> and
> > oil pressure was
> > also good at 3.5psi at 3000 rpm's. Emissions
> > analysis was dismal--
> > 11 percent CO, about 1000ppm HC, 6.5 percent
> CO2.
> > The car has the
> > two-liter engine with a Kugelfischer mechanical
> > fuel injection,
> > which the mechanics here do not know how to
> > adjust. I have a very
> > complex procedure from the Peugeot manual,
> > involving thermometers,
> > mirrors and cooling water, which caused them to
> > run in the opposite
> > direction. Nobody that I know here has the fuel
> > injector cleaning
> > apparatus for this particular model, but the
> > previous owner claims
> > that he replaced the fuel injectors and had the
> > injection system
> > adjusted 15,000 miles ago. The other thing that
> I
> > noticed is that
> > the electrovalve (some sort of a fifth injector
> > that works as a
> > choke for cold starts) had an outside seam leak
> > and was dripping
> > fuel outside the intake, and the inside head was
> > full of carbon. I
> > have not been able to find a replacement, so I
> > coated the outside,
> > where it was leaking, with metal epoxy until I
> can
> > find a
> > replacement, and that sort of mitigated the
> > problem. By the way,
> > the old spark plugs that I took out were
> extremely
> > sooty, indicating
> > that the mixture has been rich for quite a
> while.
> > If anybody can
> > offer any suggestions or explanation, I will
> very
> > much appreciate it.
> > Thanos Karydas
> > 1997 106 Rallye
> > 1973 504 XN2
> >
> >
> >
>
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Received on Thu Jul 14 23:10:30 2005
