Thank you, Gary, a bad pump has been my worst case scenario as they are
rare and expensive ($800 plus labor) but at least I have located a brand
new one, along with its injectors. I am looking for a cheap used one
now, so we will see. I also located a 70 year old expert and pulled him
out of retirement to be on standby next Thursday, just in case I have to
go with total replacement. I reached him at home and his wife said I
have to give him 20% of his fee in the form of Viagra.
-----Original Message-----
From: gary freeman [mailto:riven2649@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 6:50 PM
To: Karydas; peugeot-L@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Peugeot-L] 504 XN2 Super Rich mixture
That's what I thought, and you're right about csi;
but I was saying CIS(which stands for constant
injection system). The reason I asked, and you must
be confused by the posts you're getting, is the
replys have been addressing a different type of
injection system. That's why it was said that your
injection pump wasn't in the engine compartment, but
by the fuel tank as they thought you meant fuel
punp as K-Jetronic has no injection pump.Now we have
a whole new ball game! I worked a little on your
system as BMW 2002Tii had the same sytem, and my
real specialty is Alfa Romeo which had a similar
injection system as it was mechanical with a pump;
however, its control section was the most
complicated
as Alfa designed its pump for emission control.
I know the biggest problem with those is the rods
wear out, and if the rod for the intakes was too
sloppy, then your air intake would trail your fuel
output. When mechanical systems go really rich,
unfortunately, alot of times it's the pump itself.
Try to find a local expert, if you can't find
Peugeot
try BMW.
Good luck!
- Karydas <karydas@hol.gr> wrote:
> This is correct, Gary, it is a Kugelfischer
> electomechanical fuel
> injection. My assumption was that csi stood for
> cold start injector.
> This is a fifth injector that acts as a choke and
> the manual lists as an
> "electrovalve" and mine leaks at the seams on the
> outside.. By
> "injection pump", I am referring to the Kugelfischer
> unit which is in
> the engine bay. The fuel pump is mounted in the
> rear outside the fuel
> tank and I inspected and cleaned it and it looked
> and sounded fine,
> although I did not check its volumetric output.
> Many thanks again to
> everyone for contributing.
>
> Thanos
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: peugeot-L@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:peugeot-L@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of gary freeman
> Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 10:12 AM
> To: Ben Pender; peugeot-L@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Peugeot-L] 504 XN2 Super Rich mixture
>
> Maybe I'm ignorant of something here, but he's
> listing this as a 504 which never came injected
> in the U.S.; and in Europe, the 504 injected
> version
> was Kugelfischer mechanical injection. I don't
> think
> they used CIS (K-Jetronic) injection on the 504
> in'
> Europe. Please check your car to see what kind of
> system it has.
>
> --- Ben Pender <ben_pender@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Thanos,
> >
> > I also believe that what you are referring to as
> > the
> > "injection pump" is the control pressure
> regulator,
> > or
> > cpr. The main fuel pump is nowhere near the
> engine.
> >
> > In fact, its usually back near the fuel tank.
> Also,
> > I
> > don't know if this particular Peugeot has an
> in-tank
> > transfer pump or not, but if it does, that could
> be
> > one of your problems. In systems with a transfer
> > pump, usually ones in which the fuel has to rise
> in
> > order to get out of the tank, failure will lead to
> > poor main pump performance and thus lowered fuel
> > pressure and all the problems that arise from
> that.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Ben Pender
> >
> > --- Ben Pender <ben_pender@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Thanos,
> > >
> > > At what altitude are you? If you are less
> than
> > > 5000feet or 1600 meters, I wouldn't worry about
> > it.
> > > Even if you are at that altitude or even
> slightly
> > > higher, it really shouldn't change things that
> > much.
> > >
> > > The altitude corrector is there to increase
> > control
> > > pressure which would have the effect of pushing
> > down
> > > on the plunger in the fuel distributor and
> thereby
> > > lean out the mixture. If it failed, and you are
> > at
> > > elevation, it could lead to an overly rich
> > mixture.
> > > If it failed, and you are at a relatively low
> > > elevation, it would have very little effect.
> The
> > > point is, if it has failed, disconnecting it
> won't
> > > do
> > > anything.
> > >
> > > The altitude compensator, as mentioned above,
> > > manipulates the control pressure which pushes
> down
> > > the
> > > plunger in the fuel distributor. There is a
> > sealed
> > > chamber in the base of the control pressure
> > > regulator
> > > (cpr), the thing on the engine block, that
> expands
> > > as
> > > atmospheric pressure drops. This then moves a
> > > diaphram in the cpr which allows more fuel, and
> > thus
> > > pressure, to be directed to the top of the
> plunger
> > > in
> > > the fuel dist, which then pushes it down,
> reduces
> > > slit
> > > size, and reduces fuel flow to the injectors.
> If
> > > the
> > > expansion chamber in the cpr has ruptured, AND
> you
> > > are
> > > at significant elevation, your control pressure
> > will
> > > be too low and you COULD get the symptoms you
> are
> > > reporting, although I doubt they would be as
> > extreme
> > > as yours are.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Ben Pender
> > > some MGs
> > > some VWs
> > > some Audis
> > > some Yugos
> > > and a Fiat X1/9
> > >
> > > --- Karydas <karydas@hol.gr> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Another thought that just occurred to me:
> There
> > > is
> > > > an "altitude
> > > > corrector" that is between the air filter pot
> > and
> > > > the injection pump.
> > > > Could this be malfunctioning and calling for
> > > excess
> > > > fuel? Should I
> > > > bypass it and test again?
> > > >
> > > > Thanos
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: peugeot-L@yahoogroups.com
> > > > [mailto:peugeot-L@yahoogroups.com] On
> > > > Behalf Of Ben Pender
> > > > Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 7:29 AM
> > > > To: PeugeotGroup
> > > > Subject: Re: [Peugeot-L] 504 XN2 Super Rich
> > > mixture
> > > >
> > > > Thanos, Bob,
> > > >
> > > > He probably means 3 BAR (or atmospheres, or
> > > about
> > > > 46
> > > > psi). I'm not familiar with the specifics on
> > the
> > > > K-jet system for the Pugs, but with similar
> > > vintage
> > > > VWs, the system pressure should be in the
> > > > neighborhood
> > > > of 60-70psi or about 4.5 bar.
> > > >
> > > > I would bet that the cold start injector, or
> > the
> > > > "5th injector" is leaking profusely. And, if
> > the
> > > > pressure really is on the very low side, then
> > the
> > > > engine could be running on the csi only.
> Either
> > > > way,
> > > > the excessive fuel is washing the oil off the
> > > > cylinders which is why hot compression figures
> > are
> > > > lower than cold. It also makes sense that the
> > > lower
> > > > pressures would be 3 and 4 as that is where
> the
> > > > majority of dribbled fuel would end up if the
> > csi
> > > > were
>
=== message truncated ===
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Received on Fri Jul 15 09:08:11 2005
