Alex,
I didn't say you had to like K-Jetronic, remember,
you're the one who attacked my opinion. And you
keep bringing up Volvo who weren't the best at
adapting fuel injection. Their first attempt with
electronic they mounted all kinds of grounds for
the system under the car where corrosion caused
tons of problems, and their adaptation of
K-Jetronic
to the V6 is thought by many in the field to have
been the reason they had so much camshaft trouble
when the 604 hardly had any. They think it ran on
the rich side and washed down the cylinders with
fuel thereby diluting the oil. And that balance
system was unnecessary as Mercedes used it on their
V8 and Ferrari on their flat 12 without such need.
And not all makers were switching from D-Jetronic
to K-Jetronic, but were coming from carburetors
and had to improve efficiency and lower emissions
at a cost.I'm trying to say that I love modern
electronic injection,too; and I know all the
benefits it provides, yet I still appreciated
K-Jetronic for what it provided in the interim.
And some guys used it for performance by using
fuel distributors from same cylinder cars of
greater displacement and other "tweaks". I'm
not trying to argue against electronic systems or
your love of them, I'm just saying that I liked
K-Jetronic for what it was at the time-a simple,
inexpensive, fairly reliable, and decently precise
system that afforded the use of fuel injection on
cars that had been carburetted until that point.
And as the 505 showed, it was a big improvement
over carburetors.
And, by the way, even with factory tools, we
couldn't change timing on a new car. Maybe if we
machined new locations for TDC sensors, or if we
could get the cicuit diagrams from the ECU
manufacturers and change the electronics that
control it; but then why would we want to-all the
settings are optimum with each particular
application.
Anyway, I'm not trying to convince you to love it:
I'm just giving the reasons I liked it.
Gary
- Alex Zepeda <alex.zepeda@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 7/15/05, gary freeman <riven2649@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > First of all, I wasn't talking from a
> performance
> > standpoint, I was talking from it was fun to
> work
> > with.
>
> I think that K-Jet sucks from both standpoints. The
> simple,
> pre-lambda setup on an inline four may be okay to
> work on, but it's
> not going to be great for performance or economy.
> When you start
> dealing with bigger motors and smog gear, K-Jet
> becomes real ugly real
> quick.
>
> Take the Peugeot V6 (and its Volvo versions). To
> set the idle, the
> K-Jet version requires you to also make sure that
> the fuel distributor
> is balanced properly between the two banks of
> cylinders (not an
> especially easy task for a shadetree mechanic). The
> LH-Jetronic
> version requires you to
>
> > And the special fuel gauges were pretty
> necessary for professionals who
> > sometimes had to switch back and forth between
> system and control
> > pressure, and some cars had pretty hard to get
> to places where you had
> > to attach the hoses.
>
> That seems odd to me, mainly b/c the line pressure
> should remain
> constant, and the control pressure shouldn't have
> any impact on the
> line pressure. But I guess if you do this day in
> and day out for
> money, it would be helpful.
>
> > but it's not always easy to diagnose.
>
> Specifically I referenced LH-Jetronic injection.
> The implementations
> of it (2.0, 2.2, 2.4 on Saabs and Volvos) I've seen
> have been pretty
> darn straightforward. That's what I like about
> *those* systems. Not
> all EFI systems were created alike.
>
> > Air flow and air mass meters are notorious for
> not showing bad
> > with diagnostic equipment(even proprietary
> factory
> > only machines}, yet are the cause of the
> problem.
>
> And, generally, on newer cars (VW diesels, Nissan
> V6s) where the AMMs
> are that flakey, they're pretty cheap to buy from
> the dealer ($75 or
> so). Don't forget the MAP sensors in the D-Jet
> systems.
>
> > There is no adjustment on any CPR
>
> Ah, I was under the impression some VW or Audi CPRs
> had adjustment
> knobs of some sort.
>
> > Some customers couldn't afford the $70-80 they
> cost, so we would help
> > them out.
>
> Ohh... I wish a CPR only cost $80 for my previous
> K-Jet cars (new
> costs about $300, from a discount Volvo partshouse).
>
> > And there are many times when something
> electronic
> > is slightly out of spec yet it still works fine;
> but
> > if you're not a dealer where you can swap parts,
> > then how do you rule it out-it's not in spec!
>
> That's hardly limited to electronic equipment.
>
> > I love Weber DCOEs with guillotine throttles;
> but
> > they don't equal modern inj.,yet I still think
> > they're mean looking and fun to fool with.
>
> Webers also have great performance potential (and
> look great, and
> sound great). K-Jet is, IMO, just a goofy mess.
>
> > And the new systems take the tinkerer out
> > of the loop-you can't even change the timing and
> > those special chips aren't street legal.
>
> Yes, and no. I think that the big reason you'll
> find some of these
> more modern cars harder to modify is that the tools
> to fiddle with
> them are more expensive. How many people have tools
> to work with
> fiber optics? How many shadetree mechanics have a
> scope? OTOH take a
> look at the VW diesels. The VW service tools seem
> to have fallen into
> the hands of plenty of non-dealer types. As such
> you can often fiddle
> with all sorts of stuff.
>
> > I know we need to use electronics to make cars
> cleaner,more
> > efficient, and safer; and electronics is one of
> my
> > favorite hobbies; but that doesn't mean we can't
> > enjoy or appreciate what came before.
>
> Of course not. Even with EFI, I still drive a car
> that came before
> many others. What I like about LH-Jetronic 2.2 is
> that it's perhaps
> the apex of electronics being used to simplify
> stuff. The fuel pump
> went out in said car a month or so ago. I spent
> less than a day doing
> enough diagnostic work to rule out an electronic
> problem.
>
> > I didn't say K-Jetronic was better, I said I
> liked it-that's an
> > opinion, not scientific certainty.
>
> Right. And I said I didn't. Am I really obligated
> to like K-Jetronic?
>
> > And at the time, K-Jetronic was an improvement
> over
> > pre-existing systems at a more cost effective
> price.
>
> I diagree. Cheaper, yes. Improvement? Not so
> much. Especially over
> D-Jetronic.
>
> --
> alex
>
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Received on Sat Jul 16 20:39:11 2005
