I've been in love with these cars for the last 20 years and I'm finally in a position where I can do the mods I planned to do since I was a kid!
I didn't realise the front spring rate was so low - but because I'm doing the 2.5" springs, getting custom wound springs done to a specified rate and length will still be very cheap all things considered. The custom set up will also allow me to run camber plates up top to really get the front end dialed in.
The rear springs I was hoping to change as well - but if other springs will fit and give me the spring rate increase I want, then I'll be quite happy to use those. What did your friend use on his STI for the rear dampers? Stock or did he use some other set up? Does his car sit OK with the MB 115 springs in and with one coil cut?
- Original Message -----
From: Karydas <karydas@hol.gr>
Date: Sunday, July 24, 2005 10:30 pm
Subject: RE: [Peugeot-L] 504/505 performance
> Sounds like you are on top of it. Stiffening and lowering the
> front has
> the same effect as softening the back, the stiffer end skids
> first. Here
> is some more info: I have the narrow coil/threaded base system over
> group N Bilstein inserts on my 106 rally car and I love it, but I
> couldn't use this system on my 504 coupe. The softest marrow coil
> has a
> spring rate of 200 lbs/inch (I got 300 on my 106) and the target
> for a
> 504/505 is 100lbs (stock on the turbo is 85 lbs front, 240 rear). The
> other thing to keep in mind with this system is that as the adjustable
> base is threaded downwards to lower the nose, the spring gets softer,
> not harder. Perhaps you found another modification of this method, so
> please let me know, I would be VERY interested.
> If you want to calculate spring rates of springs available on the
> marketthe formula is 11500000 times A divided by 8 divided by the
> number of
> active coils divided by B and the result is in lbs/inch. A is the
> coilthickness in inches to the fourth power, B is the coil
> diameter in
> inches to the third power, the number of active coils are the
> coils in
> the mounted spring that are free to move, (6.5 to 7.2 in the case
> of the
> turbo depending on the model). Changing the oil in the inserts
> is a
> good idea also and pretty standard. There is a guy with an STI
> here and
> he stiffened the inserts a LITTLE by this method, used the rear
> springsfrom a Mercedes W115, cut half a coil of the top of his
> stock front
> springs and he is killing it. (He is an awesome driver and I am sure
> that helps, but he really likes this mod.) Please keep us up to date,
> this is getting very interesting.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: peugeot-L@yahoogroups.com [peugeot-L@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of Rabin Rutten-James
> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 5:46 AM
> To: august; Karydas; peugeot-l@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Peugeot-L] 504/505 performance
>
> I do have the cone type LSD - no problems with it working as part
> of the
> issue is that BOTH tires are spinning and they slide all over the
> place.The Torsen rear diff would likely be a better upgrade for
> the racing I
> do - but good luck trying to find one. I checked out Quaife - but
> $900USD is too much for me to spend right now.
>
> I already have WAY too much body roll, so the plan is to stiffen the
> suspension with a custom coil over kit on the front struts, with the
> existing hydraulic strut and lightly heavier racing shock oil to
> increase damping.
>
> The rear I want to use custom coils on a threaded sleave for height
> adjustibility. I saw the same mods on that Volvo site I posted
> way back
> - they did a 240 the same way. I called the owner of the shop and we
> chatted for a long time. With some research and some fine tuning he
> said the car was transformed and quite formidiable on the track.
> Aroundtown suffered only a little - small trade for the huge
> improvement in
> handling. I'm not sure what to do about the rear shocks - but I have
On
> some ideas... :) (I'm only looking at doing maybe a 20 - 25%
> increasein spring rate and damping, with a slight ride height
> lowering of about
> 25 mm. Nothing too drastic. The goal is to keep the traits it
> has now
> - just increase it's overall cababilities)
>
> As for the anti-roll bars - I'll replace the end links with
> polyurethaneunits - but I'll leave most of the other suspension
> bushings stock
> unless I can't get them anymore. I love how neutral the car is - so
> I'll leave tweaking the bar size till last - after I get the spring
> rates nailed. (Using 2.5" race springs so they're plentiful and
> cheap)
> Keep in mind I'm building the ultimate road going 505 Turbo -
> slalomingit is just my testing grounds. Car is going to have
> full leather
> interior, nice stereo etc etc. It's just going to be stupid fast as
> well. Hopefully - if all goes well, it'll be the tow car for a track
> day only toy in the future.
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: august
> To: Karydas ; rabin505@sasktel.net ; peugeot-l@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 10:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [Peugeot-L] 504/505 performance
>
>
> wait a sec, what size is the rear sway bar stock? Brian *Holm*
> has the
> 17 and 18mm's?
>
> James, assuming you have the cone and springs style LSD, have you
> tried shimming it at all?
>
> On 7/23/05, Karydas <karydas@hol.gr> wrote:
> > Forgot to mention that with 17 inch rims I would use 205/50/17
> Frontand
> > 225/45/17 Rear and maintain the same rolling radius you have now.
> > Yokohama Advan is a great choice for these sizes
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: peugeot-L@yahoogroups.com [peugeot-L@yahoogroups.com]
> On
> > Behalf Of James Rabin
> > Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 10:47 PM
> > To: Karydas
> > Cc: peugeot-L@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Peugeot-L] 504/505 performance
> >
> > I haven't done the strut bar yet(it's on the list when I do the
> FMIC),
> > and I have tried various tire pressures and the like with no good
> > results. Tire temp is usually an issue, but even on a hot day
> they'll
> > still spin like crazy. The runs are very short so there is little
> time
> > to get them to proper temp. The plan once all is fitted is to
> replace
> > the used tires I'm mounting for 17" fitment purposes with proper
> > performance tires that don't need as much heat to stick well -
> Falken
> > Azenis tires are supposed to be VERY good cold, and still work
> nicewhen
> > hot.
> >
> > As for where my car loses traction - The biggest problem was
> comingon
> > boost while the car is in transition - I get nasty wheelspin
> and the
> > back end fishtails all over the place. It just can't put the
> powerdown
> > the way I want it to.
> >
> > When hard into a corner the car is very neutral, but the
> moment I
> hit
> > boost the rear tires spin and I start drifting - which is
> fine, and
> the
> > car is beautifully capable of keeping the drift - but I lose
> forward > thrust.
> >
> > My hope is that with larger contact patch and better rubber I can
> put
> > more power to the ground without spinning.
> >
> > With a carbed XN motor the 195's are probably plenty for
> putting the
> > power down, but I think for high speed cornering I'd prefer a 205
> tire
> > (maybe even a 225) on 7" wheels. Rotational weight would increase
> of
> > course, but I think the benefit of the larger wheel/tire combo
> wouldbe
> > worth the penalty. The point is moot though if you can't do it
> under
> > the rules.
> >
> > I already have a GTech pro - but I've yet to use it on the 505
> Turbo. I
> > wanted to use it for tuning once I have a decent baseline to work
> with.
> > Right now the car is stock - but what I'll likely do is run
> numberswith
> > the stock tire combo, then run them after with the wheel tire
> upgrade.
> > I'll definitely post results - even if I prove myself wrong.
> Curiosity
> > is far to great as I just have a hunch the car is just under tired
> for
> > what I want it to do.
> >
> > I also have no doubt that my suspension is in dire need of
> work, and
> it
> > could use a ton of tuning, but I still think the car is too heavy,
> and
> > it has capabilities that exceed the limits of the size of tire
> it's > running. Just my .02 though...
> >
> > I'm all talk until I find out for myself - so hopefully my hunches
> are
> > correct and I don't mess up the handling. If I do - then I'll
> havea
> > much better idea of where to focus my attentions... If
> nothing else
> -
> > the car will look cool with bigger wheels and tires on it... :)
> >
> > Too bad we didn't have hills in Saskatchewan (flat as flat can get
> for
> > hundreds of miles) - hill climbs would be a hoot...
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Karydas <karydas@hol.gr>
> > Date: Friday, July 22, 2005 1:13 pm
> > Subject: RE: RE: RE: [Peugeot-L] 604 to 504 suspension swap
> >
> > > I wouldn't give up on these rims and the 195's just yet. Tire
> > > pressures(try cold 40 psi) tire temperatures (are they warm
> enough > > when you run
> > > them) and suspension tweaks make a world of difference. I am not
> very
> > > fond of extra wide tires because of the extra weight and the
> > > accompanying problems. The tire that I really like is the
> medium > > compound A048 Yokohama rally tire. (I inflate it to 38
> psi and
> keep
> > > warming it up until my pressure gauge tells me that the tire
> pressure
> > > has stabilized at which point I let it rip.) Suspension set-
> up is
> > > morecritical. Where are you loosing adhesion first (F/R all
> > > fours?) Are
> > > your inside wheels coming off the ground before you start
> > > skidding? Are
> > > you using a strut tower bar? (You can make one really easily and
> it
> > > makes a world of difference.) The permutations are way many
> especially
> > > without instrumentation. Have you heard of the gtech device
> > > (www.gtechpro.com)? It is worth a look and if several
> autocrossersbuy
> > > it together it costs about the same as a night out. Anyway,
> I have
> the
> > > feeling that you can do really well with the 195's with a strut
> tower
> > > bar, polyurethane bushings for parts of your suspension and
> revised
> > > spring rates and adjusted height. All this can be done on the
> cheap
> > > (cutting off some of Brian's old coils, machining the
> bushings out
> > > of PU
> > > blocks, making the strut tower bar in a machine shop). Let me
> > > know if
> > > you want to go that route and I will post specifics.
> > >
> > > Thanos
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: James Rabin [rabin505@sasktel.net]
> > > Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 9:27 PM
> > > To: Karydas
> > > Cc: peugeot-L@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: RE: RE: [Peugeot-L] 604 to 504 suspension swap
> > >
> > > Is it possible to use widened Peugeot steel wheels?
> > >
> > > While slaloming my 505 Turbo - I found that the 195 section tire
> was
> > > easily overpowered and it wasn't up the cornering forces I was
> > > generating. (Yokohama A008 R-compound tires)
> > >
> > > After finding that the BMW 5 series had similar offset - I
> decided > > to go
> > > that route and find wheels to fit to my car that would give
> me the
> > > dimensions I needed.
> > >
> > > Aside: The wheels I recently bought ran into a snafu, and they
> were
> > > refused by the place my buddy had me ship them too. (He said
> > > there was
> > > no problem for me to ship there!) I now have to see about
> getting > > themresent and I'll likely have to cover shipping
> again... :(
> > >
> > > Ah well - it was a good deal and still is even with x2 shipping.
> > >
> > > Once I finally have the wheels in hand I'll be able to nail down
> the
> > > spacer width at the front, and then the wheels are getting
> refinished,
> > > tires mounted, and the spacers made - all at the same buddies
> shop...
> > > :)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
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