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Wales

'86 505 GTI 3.0 V6

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Hello everyone,

Okay, so the thing is, in short form, I have installed a ZPJ V6 engine from 605 to 505 gti. And as I really dont know how common this particular engine swap is worldwide, and because I think many of you would like to see my version of it, I registered to this forum. The car had 2.0l ZEJ-engine as I got it.

But lets begin with the project itself. So two years ago I bought a really nice looking 505 GTI from "not so convincing" owner. So the car was leaking gasoline and didnt start even after half minutes of start grinding, the electricity was done bad REALLY BAD, test drive was total disaster, but yet so hilarious as we saw that the previous owner didnt know anything about cars. But I was in love for the 505, especially for this one, hence the paintwork and additional lights and the price wasn't so bad, so I bought it.

The price was tight, and it wasn't negotiable because "It would bring bad luck", said the previous owner. I can't even imagine what would happen if we had even slightest bad luck with us! So after we came down to our home city, the car almost bursted into flames.. There was smoke coming inside the interior carpet, luckily we managed to locate the faulty switch, that was the engine fan's on/off switch that the previous owner had re-located inside the cabin..

So now you see why I teared the whole car upside down to get rid of the sh*tty wiring and stuff. The whole car's electricity system was f**ked up, and I got two plastic bags of wires that I threw away. The wires were build following this rule: about 7 cm wire (3"), then a connector, and same again.. And the most of the connector's weren't even protected in any way!

At this point, as most of the wires needed complete rebuild, I hit my eyes on my extra ZPJ engine, which I had bought for spareparts to my 605 SV 3.0. So that's where everything started. First of all, I built a stand for the ZPJ engine, and by doing so I figured it was running and in good condition. I knew it would not be easy to fit the 3.0l frontwheeldrive engine to the 505, as the oilpan, clutch cover and enginemounting's will not fit straight. I didnt know that the pedals, distributor and the whole brake system required heavy modding as well.

As the V6 engine was in good condition, it was time to get the proper gearbox and clutch cover. I found the gearbox from V-M. I used BA10/5 box in this vehicle. My friend made the clutch cover from combining the 505 Turbo Injection clutch cover and the 605 SV3.0 clutch cover. After plenty of measuring and fitting, we had a clutch cover, that connected the BA10/5 to the zpj engine. We fit the Turbo Injection's hydraulic clutch cylinder to our clutch cover. So now that the clutch cover was ready, we needed proper bottom end to engine, otherwise the oilpan doesn't fit. I used the same that can be found in ZN3J, it fits directly to ZPJ. It was time to first fit test and bang, the powerbrake and climate blower was in the way, so I removed them. After that, the engine fits in its place quite nice. At this point, I knew I have to mod the powerbrake system and distributor in order to get the pedal box fit. So I used 205 gti's powerbrake, a 605 brake master cylinder, and lowered the pedalbox 5 cm (2"), turned the distributor 120 degrees with the help from my friend and mod the valvecover very little.. After those "little" tweaks, as I call them, the engine fitted in place just fine. So now I needed the engine mountings.. This was the end of summer 2012, and as I dont have an garage,and it is really nasty to do anything outside during winter time as your fingers freeze and drop out, there was an inevitable break..

All good stories come with sequals, so will this one too :) Just kidding, but I have been writing this for an 1.5 hours now and clock is eleven at night + early morning, so I will continue writing this tomorrow..

If anybody has or has done, or you know somebody that has or has done similar project, I am more than happy to hear about that. I will add millions (maybe not millions, but at least 10 :) ) of images later also..

By the way, I have couple of videos in youtube about this car. This may be the best one:

Best regards, Wales

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Thank you so much for posting the details of this swap! I had no idea that there would be that much fabrication to get the ZPJ to fit into the 505!

There won't be anyone in North America that has done this swap since we never got the 605 here, but I believe there has been a couple ZPJ4 swaps into 505's in Austrailia...

Looking forward to more pictures - hopefully you have some of the build process as well. :)

Rabin

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I planned to continue writing the story today but I really need to go to sleep as I have really deamanding exam right in the tomorrow morning. But I will continue this tomorrow.

That cursed ZPJ4 engine.. I have been trying to get one of those in my hands for five years now.. I got three ZPJ engines, so spareparts are guaranteed for awhile. I think I must find one 605 sv24 from france since they are very rare and expensive here in Finland.

Dont worry, I have dozens of pictures of my car, I will add them tomorrow.

Greetz, Wales

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Okay, I uploaded some pictures from last years building process as I promised.. I forgot to tell that we even needed to turn the throttle body as well.. Hope those pictures are good to give you some kind of vision how laborious with swap has been. I will upload some more pictures within couple of days.. I really apologize for that I can't upload any pictures about those engine mountings because they cost me the most of this projects budget.. I just dont want to "throw away" my couple of months planning and measuring by sharing a picture about them.. I ordered them from a friend with policy "cost what it cost" and that was a BAD mistake.. Since they charged me for hour by hour, the price for those engine mountings went to clouds :/ So if you just understand why im not willing to share a picture about them.. I will share picture about the clutch cover once I found a good one.

So back to project, since I had those engine mountings, I could start building the exhaust manifold's and exhaustpipes. As those were done, we only needed one silencer to the back of the car (will add picture later from that) The engine halves (3 + 3 cylinders) exhaust pipes never join themself, so the exhaust sound is pretty good at low rpm range, and it will become a hell noisy at high rpm :). At low rpm it sound like old, good fashioned v8, and in high rpm it sound like metro 6r4 rally car from 80's (which had a naturally aspired, 3 liter V6 and 90 degrees bank angle, just like PRV's do).

I will continue this in couple of days, clock is allways against me.. Got the school, cars, fiancee, job, etc.. Allways too busy.. But it wouldn't be so good if I just but the whole story here by once wouldn't it?

Btw, I put those pictures in my album, its public so I think you can see them? As I'm too bad with computers to get em to this thread..

Best regards, Wales

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Awesome! I've never seen the ZPJ engine up close... I assume the left side valve cover bank has a balance shaft in it? Is the balance shaft and the 3.0L displacement the only differences between it and the ZN3J?

The engine looks a lot like the ZN3J with some improved bits like the water pump and the cast cross over piece just behind it - curious if we can retrofit them to the ZN3J engines...

AMAZING job on the headers Wales - I know Arun is goin to be studying those pictures very carefully indeed!

Rabin

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Yes there is the balance shaft in left valve cover, and thats why it is so big compared to the right one. I believe that the only difference between ZN3J and ZPJ are those that you mentioned and of course the bottom end isnt similar in rwd and fwd motors. I mean the part that connects oilpan to the block. Also oilpan covers the whole engine are in ZPJ, but as the bottom ends are switchable and fit to both ZPJ and ZN3J, it doesnt matter if you just use the ZN3J's bottom end. I never have seen ZN3J live since they are way too rare here in Finland :/ Thats the main reason for me why I build this GTI with ZPJ. ZPJ's are cheap because the 605 V6 consume alot of fuel (As some people declare) In my opinion its isnt that much if it takes 8 liters per 100 km in highway, and 12 liters with trailer. Anyway I have bought 2 Zpj engines for 100€ each, and the one engine I needed to get the proper bottom end did cost me 200€, so I think its pretty cheap to use those engines.

The research I have done shows that all PRV engines have the same block, and all non-oddfire versions should have the same crank shaft and connecting rods also ? Only the piston diameter changes between displacement. I havent got any comfirmation about this, but it just seems so. I think every main piece (heads, bottom end,driveplate, etc.. ) can be installed from any non-oddfire to any non-oddfire prv engine. Im not 100% sure about that either..

Only thing that I really want to know for sure, are the timing chains the same in ZN3J and ZPJ? It could, but is it? ZN3J's chains are cheap and ZPJ's chains cant be found anywhere.. :/ The balancer shaft takes it drive from extra chain from the camshaft, so I think that it isnt causing any trouble..

I also do like the looks of the headers, it is so bad that they are hidden really well below the engine heads and accessories.. :/

-Wales

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Hello and sorry for not posting here for awhile..

Last weeks have been quite busy with school, work and because of cars.

Now that I am in a summerbreak from school (That is University of Applied Sciences), I am in a work placement in a construction site near my home and cars, so I can repair and tune them up in the evenings.

But back to the topic. This car is now completely road legal, I got it inspected for road use in last month. I have driven it about 2700 kilometers (~1700 miles) for now, and it works like a clock. Only thing that the inspector demanded to be changed was the back signal lights, as they were wrong colored as they were red and they should be yellow :/

More about the built process itself, after the headers, I made the rest of the exhaust system aswell.

As the exhaustsystem as done, it was time to make the cooling- and electricalsystem done. I used the stock 505 GTI’s radiator at first, but since it blew up in icetrack I had to order new one.. As I didnt want any plastic radiators anymore I decided to order an aluminium radiator from local US-Parts importer, so I got Griffin’s 27.5” * 15.5” * 3” radiator, it was so big that I had to move the battery to trunk. As wiring and cooling tubing was done, I made the intakesystem. It become quite simple, as there is (From the throttle body) one 90 degree silicon bend, 0.6 meter 3” stainless pipe and K&N’s 3” freeflow cone filter. After those I made lots and lots of little parts (Inluding throttle cable routings, clutch reservoir, powersteering, coil rack, etc..) and so it was done. This is very, very short version of the build process, but I think it’s easier for you to ask me about how something is done rather than I try to remember everything I have done and how I done those :D

With old radiator, and the headlights:

Final pictures of the engine and the battery in the trunk:

So the next steps in this project will be to clean the wirings a bit (So it doesnt look so messy) and replace so interior plastic parts as the previous owner drilled a lot more holes in those than the moon has..

By the way, I finally found an 605 SV24 so I bought it :)

So now I have:

505 Turbo Injection 1985

505 GTI V6 1986

605 SV24 1990

605 sv3.0 1993

605 sv3.0 1992 (spareparts)

I am planning to get rid of the sparepart car and to sell the 605 sv3.0..

I will add my cars to the Vehicle Registry once I find all the VIN numbers.. Are those really required?

Please feel free to ask anything about this project, I will happily answer to any question :)

-Wales

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thanks for posting these photos, wales! no need to apologize for being busy, it happens to all of us. hope your final exams went well.

i have many questions (and i'm sure that others do, as well), but i'll keep my first question simple. it's about the decal (sticker/autocollant) -- or is it a plaque? -- in one of your pictures -- this one:

gallery_1635_19_100597.jpg

lately i've been very interested in peugeot decals. :)

is this decal original to this engine, or did it come from somewhere else? is this actually three-dimensional (i.e., engraved lettering) or is that just an illusion of the photograph? i'd appreciate any information you can give me about this item.

I will add my cars to the Vehicle Registry once I find all the VIN numbers.. Are those really required?

in no case are the VIN numbers required -- we wanted to make the registry as inclusive as possible, so please include as much information as you feel comfortable with. as a matter of fact, we are more concerned with the VIN numbers of US/Canadian cars than with the VIN numbers of cars from elsewhere since we are north american-based...but we welcome all of our friends from around the world. there are not so many pre-1990s peugeots around, so we love to hear about these cars, wherever they are.

andré

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My friend made the decal from copper sheet. The text and the peugeot logo is etched to it, so yes, it is three dimensional. First I painted the whole decal black and then just sanded the copper clean.

-Wales

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It's always a pleasure to see people not afraid of using custom fabrication to achieve their aims. Great job Wales!

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Hi everyone! Just came across this post as I was searching for a wiring diagram for the E.C.U pinouts for the ZP J engine as I have a similar project am working on, A 1976 Peugeot 604 which had a smoking ZM 140 engine. That's the odd fire, 2.8 Liter with Bosch Mechanical fuel injection. I took the aluminum section of the ZM sump and swooped it with the ZP J engine so that the engine bolts onto the bell housing straight away and the engine mounts bolt onto the cross member  straight away. For the exhausts, I used the existing exhausts manifold which was also a straight fit. The exhaust manifolds are the same ones used in the 505 V6, Volvos 264 /760. The ones of the older 604's  are restrictive to exhaust gas flow as well as starter motor removal and installation.  As for the cooling system, I swooped the ZP J water pump with the one from the ZM 140/ZN 3J so that the engine could still run with the engine driven fan-i like the sound of it. The radiator is off a Volvo 264-the Peugeot ones are a little bit tiny and let the car run hotter than should be in many tropical areas. The top cover on left side of the engine when facing the engine will be replaced with that from the ZM/ZN engine as it has air con mounts that are interfering with the brake booster. The challenge ahead now is to find a ZP J efi wiring harness or diagram showing the ECU pinouts I rebuild mine as its badly damaged. Anyone with a diagram perhaps? Much appreciated!

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Welcome Efao!

You might want to consider posting your own build thread as I'd love to see pictures of what you're working with.

Can't really help with the ECU pin outs as we never got the newer V6 FWD Peugeots in North America, but I'm curious if a better option might be to use a standalone ECU?  Lots of exceptionally capable DIY systems out there that can really make things a lot easier.

Rabin

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Fenix 3B diagram for the ZPJ ? No problem. And if you read a bit of French you will have more than that.

Create your own build thread and I will post the link there.

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